Ranting about page turns...

[jon112780]

It seems that more publishers/editors are becoming aware of this recently (at least for tuba music). I love to see a mostly blank page with the words "This page had been left blank for an easy page turn" (or something similar). The Babara York Conceto has this, as well as some other music I've recently played.

However, there are numerous solos/etudes that seem to enjoy to chop a phrase in half (like the Arban for instance), and you don't want to just copy 80 pages and tape them in to fix this. I love it how there's always a "COPYRIGHT IS FORBIDDEN BY LAW" notification down at the bottom...

Why don't the publishers just switch the order of some etudes so they will fit on their own page, calculate the staff sizes, put the page turn on multiple bars of rest. or charge an extra buck or two for the extra paper to 'fix' these annoying problems?

It seems obvious, but many publishers/editors are still clueless. I thought this was about making MUSIC, not squishing eveything onto as few pages as possible. Sure, I could save money by practicing in the dark, or spend a little $$$ and turn th lights on to get A LOT MORE DONE?

[TubaBobH]

Ditto. I have wondered the exact same thing for years myself.

[pgym]

However, there are numerous solos/etudes that seem to enjoy to chop a phrase in half (like the Arban for instance), and you don't want to just copy 80 pages and tape them in to fix this. I love it how there's always a "COPYRIGHT IS FORBIDDEN BY LAW" notification down at the bottom...

Name one example.

[BVD Press]

I can chime in on this one! Thanks for the compliment on the York!

Big apologies for the long post...

For the last decade or so, I have been engraving music for myself and others. Just for Cimarron Music Press, I am guessing it is a little over 20,000 pages of music and I have done my best to make page turns whenever possible. I was engraving at least 10+ hours a day for about 5 years. A little less now, but still a lot of time everyday (4-5 hours) is dedicated to just making the music look pretty. This includes the York above mentioned by jon112780.

Some pieces are easy to deal with and others are not and sometimes it is just downright impossible so you just do your best. Many times the engraver or publisher is just lazy. It may cost some extra money here and there because of more pages and time, but I think it is much more important to produce a good product rather than have complaints later.

As an engraver, I go for at least 1 bar rest at the end of a page. Not always possible, but most of the time if you take the time it can be found. By doing this, there is no need for a photocopy.

A short list of things I do to eliminate page turns:

1. Always keeping the music readable, get it on one page or two pages. This as small as my music will get:

CMP81Euph1-0.jpg

2. With an 11x17 sheet, make pages 1-2 on one side and 3-4 on the flip. Or 4-1 on one side and 2-3 on the flip side. This gives you lots of options to avoid a page turn or have reasonable time to make a turn.

3. Add a cover page to eliminate cover pages later.This gives you lots of options to avoid a page turn or have reasonable time to make a turn.

4. If you have a piece that has lots of notes, just put what you can on page 1 and then use the middle pages of an 11x17 for the rest.

CMP633Euph1-0.jpg

CMP633Euph1-1.jpg

Page 3 here...

5. Add a blank page (York example above)

Tons more tricks, but they all take time. For most pieces I do, I work 2 or more hours to get a finished product. Some pieces take many more hours and some less. I strive for the music to clear and with good page turns, etc. The problem is the publisher has to find the time or money to make it all happen correctly. There are piles of samples out there, but here is a link to our Facebook page with pictures:

http://www.facebook.com/photos.php?id=200033020006837

I wish all pieces were quick and easy, but they are not. It was worth it do, but Ludus for 3 Tubas took 24 hours (working time and not in a 24 period) to complete. There are no awkward pages and I think it came out alright, but 24 hours is quite a lot of time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rm5EQ_WHX58

My wife got a chart for her band and each part was app. 20 pages long. The printer added a cover and this made every page of every part have a page turn in inappropriate places. The band was not happy....

I wrote too much, but if you made it this far a medal is on the way!

[BVD Press]

That Husa brass quintet, really, has no good place for page turns. Finally, I just played through four pages and (during a caesura) flipped the whole thing over. (I practiced doing it.) Attendees described it as "dramatic".

Don't have the part handy, but I am guessing I could find something in there...

[SousaSaver]

Sometimes there just isn't a good place for it. Composers aren't thinking about convenient page turns when writing music, and why would they?

I don't remember which piece it was specifically, but I remember having to play a particular note with using my right hand to operate the valves (duh) and having to lean over and turn a page using my left hand during this.

If you really want to rant about something, how about Tuba mutes. I recall playing a piece where there was no convenient break that allowed enough time to get the mute into my horn. I had to work with the Timpani player to get some assistance on getting the mute in (it was a quiet passage) without any extra noise or damage to the horn.

[BVD Press]

Sometimes there just isn't a good place for it.

A place can always be found. If anyone can stump me with a Finale or Sibleius file where I can't find a page turn, I will give them a free copy of the same type piece they send along:

bvdpress@snet.net" target="_blank

Composers aren't thinking about convenient page turns when writing music, and why would they?

Agree entirely, but if you go with a publisher the publisher/editor should be doing all of the thinking for the composer after the music is submitted. Composers are great, but most composers should not be typesetting the music after it is completed. This takes away time from what they do best and quite possibly is a skill they do not need if they can pay someone else to do it or go with a publisher. On the other hand, if a composer decides to publish their own music make it look good! The programs won't do it all for you, but they will get you going in the right direction and now represent yourself. The same can be said for a Tuba or Euph. A great start, but now it is time to learn your craft. Most people won't spend the time needed to really make it in our little world.

In case anyone is wondering, I should not be composing (ever).

[SousaSaver]

BVD -

Yeah, you are right, and I believe that your organization does a fine job with this, better than most in my opinion.

[The Jackson]

I do all the engraving and printing of my own compositions and I really can't stress firmly enough how much I now appreciate all the hard work that thoughtful publishers put in to make great scores and parts. I would say especially so with modern scores (with tuba/euph, that's basically everything) because of all the fine details that composers have enjoyed marking over the past century. You really don't know what it's like until you take the time to do it yourself.

Major thanks to Bryan and all the others out there!

[jmerring]

The piece is forgotten (for now), but had 4 front to back pages (last one was not on the back). The page turns were very difficult. I copied all pages and spread them out as 7 taped-together pages; a minor mistake. Of course, there were still page turns, if I used just one stand. My simple (but odd looking) solution was to use two stands, side-by-side. Being the only tuba player at the time - it worked.

YES. I DID COPY MUSIC. I'M STILL ALIVE and the the copies were destroyed. It was a non-profit band. God (and ASCAP) forgive me.