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I have reviewed the JinBao compensated EEb on my website at;
http://www.wessex-tubas.co.uk/products/eeb-fletcher



I have tried to be unbiased in my assessment - the purpose of the review is to inform buyers of exactly what they are getting. Hope you find interesting and useful!

I would appreciate any comments from players of the JinBao EEb in how you find it? Do your experiences match mine?

Well done, Jonathan! It seems like you did a very fine job in staying as neutral as possible, and pointing out where the Besson and Jin Bao are different. If I were an EEb player, you'd have me convinced to try one!

Good and from what I can see objective review! If I were in the market for an Eeb I think you have convinced me on this one.

One point that you should make much use of is your opportunity to talk directly to Jinbao with the help of your wife, it is absolutely invaluable to be able to talk with them as native speaking in their own language. I can see exactly the details she pointed out, and why she criticized them. I have noticed just that type of imperfections on my Chinese instruments, playwise they are great though. Those are the details that my (Japanese) wife always check up and if anything is not perfect then she craves a new item. Here is a great chance for you to help them enhance the awareness and necessity of a good quality control. Also remeber that even if the instruments are relatively cheap for us, they are maybe on par with our cost, for instruments made in the west, for them. (strange sentence but I hope it is understandable...) The QC is essential and the thing where for example Yamaha shines, the Kaizen way to go. If the instruments you sell will be checked and in perfect condition then I think you will be in a fine position for getting many satisfied customers.

Great work Jonathan!

Lingon wrote:One point that you should make much use of is your opportunity to talk directly to Jinbao with the help of your wife, it is absolutely invaluable to be able to talk with them as native speaking in their own language. I can see exactly the details she pointed out, and why she criticized them. I have noticed just that type of imperfections on my Chinese instruments, playwise they are great though. Those are the details that my (Japanese) wife always check up and if anything is not perfect then she craves a new item. Here is a great chance for you to help them enhance the awareness and necessity of a good quality control.

We are visiting the factory in three weeks, so hopefully I will get a chance (through my wife) to discuss with the production manager as we can't be sure the message has been properly passed on by sales staff.

With a little bit more care to the final finishing JinBao will have an instrument which will stand good comparison with the best European alternatives.

[quote="Neptune"][quote="Lingon"]
We are visiting the factory in three weeks, so hopefully I will get a chance (through my wife) to discuss with the production manager as we can't be sure the message has been properly passed on by sales staff.

Jonathan-
Glad you and your wife will be at the factory to talk directly with the R&D folks....they need to work on other things as well--using a jig for putting horns together so the slides aren't out of alignment, working on their other CC tubas (besides the 186 clone), etc....I look forward to hearing about your experiences at the factory. Enjoy!
mark

PS. I have to say that these days, I recommend folks get their Chinese tubas from Tom at MACK Brass. Thanks.

Neptune wrote: We are visiting the factory in three weeks, so hopefully I will get a chance (through my wife) to discuss with the production manager as we can't be sure the message has been properly passed on by sales staff.

With a little bit more care to the final finishing JinBao will have an instrument which will stand good comparison with the best European alternatives.

Will you be testing and reviewing some instruments as well while you're there? I'm planning to order either the 1291 clone or the compensating BBb this summer, and would like to read some more opinions before I make up my mind.

corbasse wrote:Will you be testing and reviewing some instruments as well while you're there? I'm planning to order either the 1291 clone or the compensating BBb this summer, and would like to read some more opinions before I make up my mind.

I understand they do not keep display stock at the factory, so I will only get to try models just manufactured at the time of my visit - so no telling what that might be.

The compensated BBb is not made by JinBao, but another Chinese manufacturer. I will be getting that and the 1291 'clone' (JinBao 800) in stock during the summer and will do reviews on once received.

However, corbasse you will be most welcome to come across the channel and try both yourself to see which is best fit for you. I am only 2 hours drive from the channel tunnel, so I'm sure you could do in a day trip and nothing beats playing for yourself, as we all have personal preferences!

I have one suggestion: the lidpipe.
If compared with the model of Besson's leadpipe Jinbao is in line... (sorry).

The straight JinBao leadpipe is based on the version required by John Fletcher. 1980's Besson 981 were all made like that, but since the 1990's Besson changed the 981 to swan-necked leadpipe like the 982.

The picture below shows my previous 1988 Besson 981, the design the Chinese almost certainly used as basis for the JinBao 700.

I don't believe any of the current German/British made compensated EEb's are now manufactured with the Fletcher straight pipe, so that is possibly another selling point for the JinBao for those players (like me) who prefer the lower position and angle of the Fletcher leadpipe. However if my sales reach a level that JinBao will customise for me, I would like to offer ones with swan-necked leadpipe as well for people who may prefer that version.

Hi!
Despite what anyone else claims, ALL JinBao's are created equal! My factory rep.( the same one Neptune, Mack, and I share) has repeatedly assured me of this! I hope Mrs. Neptune can help clarify this! Some sellers are personally attending to their JinBao's(Matt Walters comes to mind), while some of us are merely play-testing them, and maybe doing a bit of this and that, as skill level allows. Y-dent's silver EEb played pretty well out of the crate, and I don't think he spent a fortune at his tech., either! These Tubas are remarkably consistent(except in their build/delivery time ), and are a wonderfull alternative to a used Tuba needing 1000's in repair! Tuba Exchange is allready selling some non-JinBao axes, and Neptune found several sources to explore during his Frankfurt trip, and I can't wait to hear from Jonathan when he gets back from his next China trip! Ultimately, though, these horns need to pass muster with the players, wich is why TubeNet is such an important forum, and invaluable resource!

Al

[quote="tubaforce"] These Tubas are remarkably consistent(except in their build/delivery time )

Oh Boy, I'll second that statement !
mark

goodgigs wrote:So a while back, you were talking to Mickey W. and he mentioned some new models.
Would any of them look like this ?
Can you to comment yet ?

Imagine all the tubas
were stencils of the cso york

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only dork
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will all play york

goodgigs wrote:So a while back, you were talking to Mickey W. and he mentioned some new models.
Would any of them look like this ?
Can you to comment yet ?

I am meeting up with Micky in Beijing at the end of this month, so will see what he says

yadent wrote:The imperfections I noted were taken care of for less than $200 and once done made the instrument an even better horn.

Ray, Out of interest, what did you get done to improve?

Hi!
I've heard from a couple of sellers that they are having the same porting issues, among other details, even though their middleman is doubling up on "hand picked" instruments! Like I said, Neptune's visit should carify a few points of contention vis~a~vis QC at these Asian axes!

Al

I have just uploaded demonstration of me playing the JinBao Eb to YouTube playing the Boris Grigoriev Etude No.1

goodgigs wrote:So a while back, you were talking to Mickey W. and he mentioned some new models.
Would any of them look like this ?
Can you to comment yet ?

Please let us know what comes out of the conversation, Jonathan. BTW - checked out your video. The EEb seems like a very nice tuba. The Chinese manufacturers have come a long way!

cktuba wrote:Very nice... any chance of getting a similar demonstration on the F?

I have not got the F in stock as yet (expected July), but intend to do so once received - as with the other models (Lang travel tuba, JinBao 410 CC, 800 BBb, etc.)

I think it useful if potential customers have such demonstrations to help them decide if worth checking out for themselves.

+1 for a review of your other available horns. Great recording for those interested in these horns.

UTSAtuba wrote:Great recording for those interested in these horns.

Thanks - it was done just using my Lumix FZ28 camera with built in microphone. I expect it did not pick up the full harmonics (???), but I think gives a fair representation of how the tuba sounds. Interesting it has not picked up any valve noise which did initially concern me. After playing the tuba in a couple of rehearsals, the valves seem to have now bedded-in and quietened somewhat.

If you can hear slight reverberant buzz on video I think that was sympathetic vibrations from the piano on which the camera was sitting.