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I use a modified Stewart stand. I remove the ball, drill a 2.5 inch deep hole into the base of a wooden dowel that is about 16-20 inches long. i then glue a small rubber ring around the hole in the dowel and put a rubber cane foot on the end. The advantage of this system is that it moves with me if i want to adjust in the chair and if i ever want to use it standing up i can just add a longer wooden dowel. Another added feature is that it is very light weight.

I have a K&M and used a DEG in the past. The K&M is much sturdier and stays in place well.Its lowest height adjustment is a little high for me with some tubas, but it works well with my Martin 6/4, which is what I got it for.

The DEG could be adjusted lower, and the legs didn't take up as much space, but I couldn't get it to stay in place with my BAT.

wnazzaro wrote:Build one yourself. ... Get a drum throne (something fully adjustable). Remove the cushion and attach a piece of wood to the throne. Cover with material....

How much does a drum throne cost? My suspicion is that if you have to buy one, you'd be into nearly as much money as the K&M.

The K&M is made like a drum throne, with parts designed to last forever. Even the feet are done right. I have two of them now, one for the house and another for the car, and the one that bounces around in the car all the time and gets toted to rehearsals and gigs still looks as good as the one that sits in my house. The saddle is metal and substantial, and the latest ones have a pad that is firm rubber molded around the saddle, making accidental scratches impossible.

The DEG has come in many versions over the years. The one I used was fine for a sub-20-pound Miraphone, and I used it for many years. But it quickly fell apart when I started using it with the 28-pound York Master. And the legs don't spread out wide enough to be really secure with a big tuba. The feet on mine, which are just rubber caps over the open ends of the tubing that comprises each leg, wore through and then started falling off unpredictably. But the big problem was that the foam pad in the saddle wore down and then came unglued from the plastic saddle.

I also used a Stewart Stand for a long time. It marked up the instrument where the straps were placed, it made it difficult to put the instrument in a gig bag (forget a hard case unless you remove it every time), and it was still sensitive to the shape of the chair. Many chairs, including folding metal chairs, have a rolled edge, and if you place the foot of the Stewart Stand on too close to that edge, it will slip off, which, I can say from repeated personal experience, is unpleasant. (Where a Stewart Stand would be perfect is for holding a big tuba while standing--you can take off the rubber foot and put the ball inside the cup of a flag harness used by color guards.)

Thus, in my view, the K&M provides good value for general-purpose use: A stand that will last a lifetime with the heaviest instrument for only 30% more than a stand that will fall apart in a few years (if you use a heavy tuba).

Rick "whose DEG lasted a lot longer than most he's known" Denney

Guinness wrote:I use a modified K&M. The height adjustment knob stripped off, so I drilled some holes in the stem and use a nail to hold it up.

I also have the K&M and agree with everything Rick Denney said about it.

I had a problem with the height adjustment gradual slipping when I had a heavy tuby on the stand. I did not strip the knob off by over-tightening though. Instead, I took my stands (I have two like Rick) to Dan Oberloh and he solved the problem in about 60 seconds. Here's how:

Take the top shaft out of the stand and remove the plastic brake. Slightly roughen up the brake and the shaft with emory cloth and ... that's it. They hold fast now.

OK - I'll be the odd man out. I have a DEG stand that lives in the bell of my new King 2341 (in the padded case, of course). It cost me less than the K&M stand, and much less than it would cost for me to build my own (since I bill my own time at somewhat more than "do you want fries with that").

It works just fine, and appears to be wearing out no more rapidly than my tubas do. I maintain my tubas...and I also maintain my DEG stand.

When asked about it, I always warn other tuba players that it takes a good 3-4 hours of playing time to get used to the stand.

I've never used the K&M stand and (unusual for this group) have no opinion on it.

***

I have a huge kaiser tuba, MW 200.
For sitting gigs I always use the Tubassist, that I found here on the Tubenet two years ago. It works very well and can easily be adjusted to fit any size of tuba, chair and player. http://www.tubassist.com/
For standing gigs I use the K&M stand, the extended version.
I can recommend both of the stands. No problems have occurred so far.
Regards,
Lars

Rick Denney wrote:

wnazzaro wrote:Build one yourself. ... Get a drum throne (something fully adjustable). Remove the cushion and attach a piece of wood to the throne. Cover with material....

How much does a drum throne cost? My suspicion is that if you have to buy one, you'd be into nearly as much money as the K&M.
/quote]

$40, depending on shipping and the exact item. Less on sale or used.
I'd go for used anyway, check garage sales for one with a cut/6tattered seat, since you not going to use it anyway.

It's a hassle but I carry a chair with me. I have a folding wood chair with a flat padded seat, that works. If I count on the venue to supply the chair, there is no telling what I'll end up with...sometimes it's one of those plastic things with the "well" for your butt, and I can't keep from sliding back in it, and then my feet don't reach the floor. Even if I manage to sit on the edge, it's like sitting on the edge of a 2X4. VERY uncomfortable. So for me the chair is the answer.
MA

The DEG stand, with a few modifications is a good one if you gig alot and are always on the move. It fits easily into the bell with the additional bag that you can buy for it. The tension clamp that keeps the adjustable pole in place is insufficient for larger horns. I simply had three holes drilled into the adjustable pole(for adjustability) and use one of those pins with the tiny retractable balls to secure it in place. I use a carabiner to attach it to the stand while transporting.

Lew wrote:I have a K&M and used a DEG in the past. The K&M is much sturdier and stays in place well.Its lowest height adjustment is a little high for me with some tubas, but it works well with my Martin 6/4, which is what I got it for.

The DEG could be adjusted lower, and the legs didn't take up as much space, but I couldn't get it to stay in place with my BAT.

Lew, I had the same height problem with my K&M; I solved that by using a hacksaw to cut 1" off the top of the stem (where it attaches to the saddle). That is the most that can be sawn and still have enough left for the saddle to slip over.
BTW--this stand is great for the type tubas which have a peg-like piece protruding from the bottom bow; it slides right into a hole in the saddle.

Well... I had to vote for 'other'. I've tried stands but still prefer to keep my horns in my lap. I've moved the leadpipe on a couple of my horns so they would 'fit' be better. A stand is just one less thing I have to carry with me. As far as standing gigs go... a Meinl-Weston harness does the trick. I sometimes use it for sitting gigs, too... makes the page turns a lot easier.

tuba4sissies wrote:but why do these older, and stronger, older men use tuba stands?

Do you walk, ride a bike, or drive a car to the store 3 blocks away? 1 mile away?

All 3 are options, but some are easier.

So using a stand is nice. Not required, but helpful. You can spend you time playing, and not be concerned with holding the horn.

Now it could improve your playing, since it wilol put the horn in the correct position every time. Different chair height? Not a problem. So the horn is at the abngl;e you want and the mouthpeice is where it should be.

This can be a requirement to adjust the mouthpeice. Big horns and short people in particular.

Then there are some whos belly get's in the way of using a chair. Some chairs don' have much room for some bottoms (forget the horn). Some horns are very uncomfortable on the legs.

FWIW, I've never used one, but am considering it. Practice at home is hard, since I don't have a chair the right size. So I could get a chair, or get/make a stand. The stand has many more applicatios, so it looks to be the best route.

tuba4sissies wrote:but why do these older, and stronger, older men use tuba stands? even my 5 1/2 foot friend doesnt need one. and he isnt the stronger either. but he can handle it. even a girl smaller then him can handle. but those two are bigger then the other guys up there.

From my own experience, it has as much to do with ergonomics as anything else.

I'm 6'4", and played a Meinl-Weston 2145 for three years in an Air Force field band. Since we'd use whatever chairs were available at the gig site when travelling, you can do the math and figure I sat in just about every type of chair imaginable.

I tend to tip my head down when I play, so I couldn't really get away with sitting the horn on my lap (mouthpiece would've been too high). Setting the horn on the chair *might* have worked, provided it was just the right angle. Usually, however, I just had problems.

I made a custom rig from a Stewart Stand that enabled me to support the horn out past the edge of the chair, and usually down a ways. This was especially helpful with chairs that were higher in the front than in the back (e.g. those flimsy folding chairs with plastic seats). This set-up gave me total control over horn positioning, regardless of what type of chair I was forced to sit it.

If I'd had a stand like the K&M, I probably could've used that with the same results. I've heard some say the stands offer better acoustical coupling with hall stage surfaces, but I don't have an informed opinion on that particular subject. I'm looking to get a K&M and stool setup ala Alan Baer's rig for my Mirafone 190 (giant rotary CC), and if it makes any difference in the way the horn sounds in our performance hall, I'll pass on the results...

...Dave

Absolutely, the most effective stand solution in my opinion:
A Stewart stand, but remove the useless nylon tubing and have your favourite technician solder the knobs directly onto the horn. Insert the stand into the knobs when you're ready to play, and the weight is entirely supported by the rod. I'll never use a different stand as long as I live.

tuba4sissies wrote:I have some questions about tuba stands.

first off, my school has them for the two smallest tuba players. they can barely handle carrying it, but theyre short and small to, so its reasonable. no im 6 foot, and can play it on my lap, or put it on the chair and have it at a small angle.

but why do these older, and stronger, older men use tuba stands? even my 5 1/2 foot friend doesnt need one. and he isnt the stronger either. but he can handle it. even a girl smaller then him can handle. but those two are bigger then the other guys up there.

Mr. Pokorny uses one. A K&M I believe.

I wonder how sales were for those after the last TUSAB Conference?


Anyhow, Mr. Pokorny believes it does a few things. He says it alleviates stress from the knees and ankles. It also allows him to move around a bit with the horn without supporting it. He also believes that the decrease in contact area with a very effective dampener (inner thigh) allows the horn to resonate better. With a horn like the one he uses (old thin as paper York), this might be even more noticeable. I am also supecting that the stand does a better job to transfer energy to the wooden stage better similar to a 'cello or bass clarinet end pin (better take of those little rubber feet off the K&M if your playing one a wooden stage).

I knew a middle school band director that made his kids buy a tuba stand (DEG) and a mouthpiece to use with the school provided tubas. The mouthpiece is a no-brainer, but the tuba stand was saving him $$$ to $$$$ a year in repair bills. It also allowed the smaller kids to hold the tuba regardless of chair.

After using one, I won't switch back to the old neoprene-pad-on-the-inner-thigh routine. The stand makes it easier to hold the horn, adjust the slides, and even turn pages. Fact is, you can rest the horn against your shoulder and use both hands for tasking if needed. The only time I was playing that I was more free in movement was playing standing gigs for a Anheiser-Busch distributor using my Blue Note strap. Playing with the strap and all the other crap I was doing made for a sore back. It was comfortable while I was playing, but I think it had something to do with the general anesthetic I was consuming...

Buy a stand. Use it. You'll be happier.

Sorry, a mistake occurred. Could you please remove this post, Sean.

cktuba wrote:
Is the Tubassist still available? How does it hold up? It looks as if it might fit the music pocket of a gig bag, any comments?

Sorry, I've no idea whether it's still available. Please ask Mr. Johnson, the inventor, he's a very kind man, descending from Sweden.
The Tubassist is bulky and even taken apart it will not fit the music pocket.
Future improvements are welcome. There is a cloth bag available, unfortunately not padded. It doesn't give much of protection if placed in the case or the bell, sharp edges will cause dents.
Furthermore you have to use a heavily padded pillow to sit on. Looking at the design of the Tubassist you understand why. In my case it's an advantage only, I'm 6'2" tall. Since I always use a hard case there is fortunately plenty of space free for various aids.
Despite the handling disadvantages, it's still the best and most flexible tuba stand I've found. I can recommend it.
Good luck,
Lars

tuba4sissies wrote:but why do these older, and stronger, older men use tuba stands? even my 5 1/2 foot friend doesnt need one. and he isnt the stronger either. but he can handle it. even a girl smaller then him can handle. but those two are bigger then the other guys up there.

After you play tuba for decades, you may find that holding it in your lap has caused damage to your back. I know two top players (one an orchestral player, and another in a military band) who have had back surgery. I, too, have had serious back ailments at times, and don't want them to strike more often or more severely.

I don't use the stand for my F tubas--they are small enough for it not to be an issue. But my Miraphone is designed to rest on a chair, and a stand is a lot safer (for the instrument and the player--you don't want to have an instrument to your mouth when it slips off the chair). My York Master is heavy and ungainly, and the Holton is bigger and even more ungainly.

It's not a matter of strength. I can easily lift and carry the Holton over my head with one arm. It's a matter of achieving a balanced, comfortable position that won't do damage.

It's also a matter of being able to completely relax while playing, which is important to the proper movement of air. If you are tense managing the weight of the instrument, that tension will make it hard to breathe as smoothly and as deeply as you need to make your best sound.

Not all these issues can be resolved by moving the leadpipe, or by being tall (I'm 6').

And they are certainly not resolved by being older, older.

Rick "remembering his youth, when nothing hurt" Denney

For all wondering the cost of a drum throne...$19.99 at Sam Ash model GJB-10 by Groove Percussion. The actual seat has a very small base so if you did want to modify it it would leave you a nice small base for the new tuba "saddle". The lowest non modified height is 20 inches. Highest non modified height is 29-5/8 inches (with seat lifted aprox 1 inch on seat post). Not quite tall enough for a 6ft tall person to use standing but with a couple of well placed mounting holes in a new longer 1 in o.d. pipe i'm sure it could be modified for standing for less than $5.00. I bought one and if I modify it i will take pics and post them with instructions.

p.s.
Manny's is selling them on eBay for $19.99 also w/free shipping
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... gory=10173