TubeNet

Hello all,

After the recent loss/theft of my £150 EEb practice tuba (that was valued at £1600) I've been told my chances of getting it back are next to nothing
Therefore I'm going to consider getting a new BBb tuba (I used to rent a fantastic old (20 year+) huge bore Besson Soverign from the brass band so that's my first choice, as my Eb helicon won't cut it for decent work).

I'll be travelling with it often so something light would be nice, I'm also a fan of 3+1 piston valves but I'll consider rotaries (if anyone could draw up a playing comparison to that between rotaries I'd appreciate it) and my budget will be about £3,000 / $4,850 (including shipping + hardcase) after my student loans arrive and I've worked a bit. It'll hopefully be used for a Wind Orchestra / Orchestra or brass band

I want to avoid china-quality/made instruments or anything that needs restoration, so what are my choices and what would people recommend? ( I'll also need new mouthpieces as they were lost/stolen too :/ )


Edit:
I've found the Cerveny 701 Kaiser that was owned by Neptune and Tuba guy up for sale, that one seems to be calling out to me, I only wish I had the money to buy it now!

It is not TubeNet arrogance that the replies don’t come flowing in at a high frequency. I don’t think we know you well enough to give adequate advice.

If you are a tuba major in a conservatory or in a university, I would find it OK going to the limits of your financial capacity to get an instrument. But then such schools often would loan instruments to their students. And you hardly would go for a BBb tuba.

Stretching yourself for a hobby instrument may not be too wise. I would rather look for an adequate band, which would provide the instrument, if you signed up as a member and provided a reliable bass line for them. But then I know nothing about your location at all.

Klaus

imperialbari wrote:It is not TubeNet arrogance that the replies don’t come flowing in at a high frequency. I don’t think we know you well enough to give adequate advice.

If you are a tuba major in a conservatory or in a university, I would find it OK going to the limits of your financial capacity to get an instrument. But then such schools often would loan instruments to their students. And you hardly would go for a BBb tuba.

Stretching yourself for a hobby instrument may not be too wise. I would rather look for an adequate band, which would provide the instrument, if you signed up as a member and provided a reliable bass line for them. But then I know nothing about your location at all.

Klaus

Ah, I understand, apologies if my posts seem to have been too frequent.

I won't be studying music (I wish I could!) I'd be playing for a hobby. I've contacted the brass band and university I was hoping to go to, however they have told me they don't have any BBb or EEb basses available for loan, hence the idea of purchasing.

I didn’t intend to call your postings too frequent. 25 postings over 4+ years cannot be called frequent by any standard. But where replies often come flowing at high speeds, then your question is a tough one. Using student loans for an expensive hobby instrument is not something I would urge you to do.

Aren’t there other bands in your area, which would loan you an instrument, if you became a regular player with them?

Are there open spots on similar instruments like Eb tuba, euphonium, or baritone?

If you are living out of your home area, it might be helpful finding a local player with good knowledge of the area and ask for local opportunities.

Klaus

Ah, thankyou Klaus. I've yet to find anything par the university orchestra with vacancies, I will as around however.

Would it be possible for anyone who has both a piston and a rotary BBb to compare the sounds of "German" and "American / English" bass? It's something I've always pondered over. Also, what are the pro's / con's of rotaries vs 3+1 piston?

Richard, Having played on a variety of tubas I would characterise the American sounds as broader and more enveloping and German sound more colourful and direct. The British sound more leans towards the American, but is as much defined by the brass band sound with which we are familiar as the instruments.

For pros and cons of 3+1 v rotary. My perception is the 3+1 makes for easier fast moving around in the low register with the left hand operated 4th valve, but can be uncomfortable to hold, particularly in the case of the BBb. Rotary valves have the advantage of less finger movement, lighter and in my experience greater reliability and with arm in more comfortable position.

PS The valves on that Cerveny 701 are really great!

I've found a Cerveny Kaiser for $2000, what are people's opinions?
I've been told there are 7 patches to the bell but it's still solid and the clocksprings are working fine. It comes with a Gigbag for the price.

Apparently the "F" needs to be played on 1 and 3, what does this equate to in treble clef? (I'm amusing it the valves are in the same order as a 1+3 setup, but I'll email them and ask)

The 1&3 F referred to is your second line G in the treble clef staff.

Please try before you buy.

Klaus

You really need to try to see if any good. I would be rather wary with those patches - it is obviously very old and the brass may be brittle. $2000 seems a bit expensive for the age and condition - you would be better with getting the Cerveny Kaiser CC that Sam Gnagey has for sale at $2500. It is not difficult to learn CC fingering.

imperialbari wrote:The 1&3 F referred to is your second line G in the treble clef staff.

Please try before you buy.

Klaus

That's yet another problem I'm going to face, a vast majority of these instruments are in the US, I'm in the UK :/

Neptune wrote:You really need to try to see if any good. I would be rather wary with those patches - it is obviously very old and the brass may be brittle. $2000 seems a bit expensive for the age and condition - you would be better with getting the Cerveny Kaiser CC that Sam Gnagey has for sale at $2500. It is not difficult to learn CC fingering.

I have no use for a CC bass at the moment, have you used one (BBb conversion) in a brass band or orchestra?

RanmaSyaoran wrote: That's yet another problem I'm going to face, a vast majority of these instruments are in the US, I'm in the UK :/

Go and see what second-hand BBb Mark Carter at http://www.MrTuba.com has in stock. I know he has got some including a Cerveny 4/4, a Conn 25J and old Kaiser BBb which plays well.

RanmaSyaoran wrote:I have no use for a CC bass at the moment, have you used one (BBb conversion) in a brass band or orchestra?

The Neptune CC plays well as a BBb, but I realise one of those are beyond your current budget, even if any for sale

There is large second hand market in brass band tubas in the UK, partially on eBay. It is a matter of finding and trying.

Sometimes efficiency is not polite, but I have a sense that you are not originally from the UK. That may make you less aware about the obstacles in importing instruments into the EU. I have done so several times with different instruments and equipment for my collection. It is not worthwhile unless the goods are very special, and mostly not with instruments originating in Europe. Shipping costs either way plus duties, VAT, and whatever (like fees for handling customs paperwork or domestic transportation) will run very high and must be pre-calculated carefully to make sure you can afford them all. My connections in the shipping business tell that private customers often are profoundly surprised by these costs and cannot pay them. That leads to the goods being returned to the seller at the customer's costs. Leaving them with debt and no goods.

I am not discouraging you. Rather encouraging you to seek advice in the UK, where I am not the optimal expert, as I am in a different country and I am not a native speaker of English.

Klaus

imperialbari wrote:There is large second hand market in brass band tubas in the UK, partially on eBay. It is a matter of finding and trying.

Sometimes efficiency is not polite, but I have a sense that you are not originally from the UK. That may make you less aware about the obstacles in importing instruments into the EU. I have done so several times with different instruments and equipment for my collection. It is not worthwhile unless the goods are very special, and mostly not with instruments originating in Europe. Shipping costs either way plus duties, VAT, and whatever (like fees for handling customs paperwork or domestic transportation) will run very high and must be pre-calculated carefully to make sure you can afford them all. My connections in the shipping business tell that private customers often are profoundly surprised by these costs and cannot pay them. That leads to the goods being returned to the seller at the customer's costs. Leaving them with debt and no goods.

I am not discouraging you. Rather encouraging you to seek advice in the UK, where I am not the optimal expert, as I am in a different country and I am not a native speaker of English.

Klaus

Ah, I am from the UK but I had not considered any kind of import taxes . I've just rung Mr. Tuba and I'll make sure to go down and try a few before I buy, I'll also give Neptunes Wessex tubas a try.

Many thanks again Klaus and Neptune!

RanmaSyaoran wrote:I've just rung Mr. Tuba and I'll make sure to go down and try a few before I buy, I'll also give Neptunes Wessex tubas a try.

Richard, Good luck and give my regards to Mark! I should be getting in BBb July - I will drop you PM once in stock, unless you are already fixed up.

imperialbari wrote:There is large second hand market in brass band tubas in the UK, partially on eBay. It is a matter of finding and trying.
Klaus

In my renewed search for affordable compensated BBb's I noticed that a lot of the .uk sites where I found second hand tubas a few years ago now seem to have vanished. Do you, or other tubenet members, have any idea where they are to be found now?

OK, not to say UK!

I am no longer searching for tubas, if for no other reason then lack of space. Likewise I have documentation of the British compensating tubas, so I haven’t looked much lately aside from on the UK eBay, where they still pop up . Same goes for German eBay, where some samples appear coming out of the Netherlands. Switzerland is tricky as it is outside the EU, but they have a market also.

Klaus

I am the current owner of the horn in question and I agree whole-heartedly with comments like 'try before you buy' and 'shipping to the UK will be a problem'.

Yes.... these big Cerveny tubas are quite subject to intonation 'quirks'. Using 1 - 3 for F is a must.

No.... the patches on the bell are solid and there is no sign of 'brickely-ness' in the brass.

Yes.... shipping from the US to the UK is going to be EXPENSIVE.

No.... this is not a 'worn out' tuba. Compression is excellent. Resonance is terrific.

One other thing the potential buyer did not mention... he is looking to use this horn in a brass band and would like to have a comparison between it and a British-style 3 + 1 compensator. To me... there is no way to make such a comparison. In a section with compensating horns, this tuba would not be appropriate.

Thanks for the advertising but I would REALLY rather not have to pack this horn for export.

If the OP is going to use the tuba in a BBB, then a comp is in order. If the OP is in a contesting BBB, then a comp is required. These tend to cost more used. I would suggest the OP contact Mark Carter, aka "Mr. Tuba" in Wales, as he probably the best person to have a used BBb that is suitable, and may be logistically possible to "try before you buy."
http://www.netupandgo.com/mrtuba/" target="_blank

Hello everyone,

Apologies TubaTinker for not mentioning in this thread I intended to use it in a brass band, however following everyone's advice I have just spoken to Mark Carter and he has made some recommendations.

Once again many thanks!