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It's 101 degrees as we are about to start an outdoor concert. Do I still need to warm-up?

Ed Jones wrote:It's 101 degrees as we are about to start an outdoor concert. Do I still need to warm-up?

I played an indoor concert last weekend where I am sure it was 90 degrees or more on stage. Since I was playing Gabriel's Oboe and thought I ought to actually play those high G's, I did warm up. However, my biggest problem was an hour later trying to keep my mouthpiece from slipping off my sweat-drenched face for the encore, Parade of the Charioteers from Ben Hur, where the second tuba part goes down to pedal C quite a bit.

Ed,

I played a concert in a park in downtown Dallas last Tuesday evening with the temperature being 98 degrees and the relative humidity was 25%. During the entire 70 minutes, I didn't have to empty any water out of my tuba!

-Matt

So what do you guys typically do to play down to pitch when it's that hot? Do you guys have super duper long main tuning slides? Do have have alternate main tuning slides fabricated? Do you add sousaphone bits?

I figure that at 90 degrees F, an A=440 instrument will probably play around A=449.

cjk wrote:So what do you guys typically do to play down to pitch when it's that hot? Do you guys have super duper long main tuning slides? Do have have alternate main tuning slides fabricated? Do you add sousaphone bits?

I figure that at 90 degrees F, an A=440 instrument will probably play around A=449.

The tuba may be sharp compared to some obscure, esoteric measurement such as A=440; however, the tuba is till playing lower pitches than most of the other instruments!

cjk wrote:So what do you guys typically do to play down to pitch when it's that hot?

There is not much you can do.

I drink plenty of water, fulfill my contractual obligation and get the hell out of there. When the ambient temperature is in the upper 90s, there is no quality control.

-Matt

I thought that when it's warm, the tubes are getting longer and wider and that your instrument is getting lower instead of higher.

(We don't have this kind of temperatures here in the netherlands....)

How come that it's playing higher?

-Joost-

Ed Jones wrote:It's 101 degrees as we are about to start an outdoor concert. Do I still need to warm-up?

i would at least warm up my emboucher, (spelt wrong) like just buzzing your lips like a motor boat w or w/o mouthpiece, just to make sure that your lips are nice and good
just my two cents though

Speed of Sound
358.0 m/s @ 45°C
343.6 m/s @ 21°C
330.4 m/s @ -1°C


Temperature and the speed of sound

Temperature is also a condition that affects the speed of sound. Heat, like sound, is a form of kinetic energy. Molecules at higher temperatures have more energy, thus they can vibrate faster. Since the molecules vibrate faster, sound waves can travel more quickly. The speed of sound in room temperature air is 346 meters per second. This is faster than 331 meters per second, which is the speed of sound in air at freezing temperatures.

The formula to find the speed of sound in air is as follows:

v = 331m/s + 0.6m/s/C * T

v is the speed of sound and T is the temperature of the air. One thing to keep in mind is that this formula finds the average speed of sound for any given temperature. The speed of sound is also affected by other factors such as humidity and air pressure.

JJJimmink wrote:I thought that when it's warm, the tubes are getting longer and wider and that your instrument is getting lower instead of higher.

(We don't have this kind of temperatures here in the netherlands....)

How come that it's playing higher?

-Joost-

ppalen in the post above answered your question without saying he was answering your question.

The coefficient of expansion for brass is almost negligible when applied over an 18' (or 16', etc) length of tube during a 20 degree (F) rise in temperature.

The speed of sound inside the tube is affected much more by the heat as ppalen explained above and this is what accounts for the pitch going sharp in higher temperatures. Air is less dense when it is 20 degrees hotter than normal and sound waves move faster through it, thus the pitch goes sharp. For those of you who are technically oriented, forgive me for generalizing the explanation.

The same occurs in cold weather, the brass does shrink a little in length but the pitch goes flat because of the denser air.

Ed's post was a fun comment considering how often he simply lurks but, really, he's a great musician and already knows how to warm up under all conditions.

Alex C wrote:Ed's post was a fun comment considering how often he simply lurks but, really, he's a great musician and already knows how to warm up under all conditions.

Indeed. I'm pretty sure I've heard him play Jabba the Hutt in the same venue under similar conditions: simply excellent despite the heat. In fact, I'm pretty sure he subbed for Don Little in the same venue when I was in high school working on the grounds crew.

Well, since we are getting all scientific, how long will it take to fry an egg on a 20" tuba bell in 105 degree heat? The tuba is a CC, rotary valve and laquered.

gnrguitar64 wrote:

Ed Jones wrote:It's 101 degrees as we are about to start an outdoor concert. Do I still need to warm-up?

i would at least warm up my emboucher, (spelt wrong) like just buzzing your lips like a motor boat w or w/o mouthpiece, just to make sure that your lips are nice and good
just my two cents though

Ed Jones wrote:Well, since we are getting all scientific, how long will it take to fry an egg on a 20" tuba bell in 105 degree heat? The tuba is a CC, rotary valve and laquered.

Ah, but is it a 5/4 or 6/4? The diameter of the bottom bow and first branch would have a direct correlation to the amt of hot air passing over the egg, as would the ambient temperature of the surface of the tuba in the area immediately surrounding the egg. Other factors include altitude, the amt of traffic passing by your location (particularly if there are diesel engines present), and whether you warmed up using the Arban Complete Method or the Clarke Characteristic Studies. I'm sure I've left something out, but then -- I haven't quite finished my DMA.

Ed Jones wrote:Well, since we are getting all scientific, how long will it take to fry an egg on a 20" tuba bell in 105 degree heat? The tuba is a CC, rotary valve and laquered.

Ahh ... well, taking all that into account, I get 4 minutes and 33 seconds ...

Ed Jones wrote:Well, since we are getting all scientific, how long will it take to fry an egg on a 20" tuba bell in 105 degree heat? The tuba is a CC, rotary valve and laquered.

Longer than it took to fry my artist's brain whilst reading Alex's and ppalen's posts...danged aigheads!

Seriously...it doesn't matter what the tuner says at that temp because nobody else in the ensemble is generally going to be able to compensate, either. The whole ensemble will play sharp. Just use the ears for something besides holding sunglasses, and match everyone else.

.....Air is less dense when it is 20 degrees hotter than normal and sound waves move faster through it, thus the pitch goes sharp. For those of you who are technically oriented, forgive me for generalizing the explanation.

I'm not sure the speed of sound through the air, should effect the pitch. It would mean that the sound will get to you faster, but the frequency of the sound waves being generated should not change! Am I missing something?

Z-Tuba Dude wrote:

.....Air is less dense when it is 20 degrees hotter than normal and sound waves move faster through it, thus the pitch goes sharp. For those of you who are technically oriented, forgive me for generalizing the explanation.

I'm not sure the speed of sound through the air, should effect the pitch. It would mean that the sound will get to you faster, but the frequency of the sound waves being generated should not change! Am I missing something?

Yup! The speed of sound (of the air inside your instrument, not of the surrounding air) determines how many times per second the sound can travel back-and-forth through the acoustical length of the instrument. As an example, if it was your job to drive back-and-forth between two cities without stopping, the number of times you could complete the round trip each day (your frequency) would depend on your speed -- increasing your speed from 50 mph to 60 mph would increase your frequency by 20%. This article might be of interest:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_sound