Advice on getting back into tuba playing

[Uncle Buck]

I'm interested in hearing some of your thoughts about getting back into tuba playing. Anybody been where I've been? Any good advice?

I finished my master's in tuba performance in 1997, and unfortunately, haven't really played since. My life went a different direction, ended up selling my horn (a Conn 3J CC - loved it and miss it), and now I'd like to get back into playing for fun, etc.

My first issue is a horn. I don't have much to invest, and getting two horns (a CC and an F) simply isn't an option. I'd like to get into the community band/orchestra scene, where a CC makes sense. However, if I start playing again, I'd love to get back into the solo literature, which I always found the most fun. I never had much success with most of the solo literature on CC, though, but I worry that an F won't be versatile enough for me.

Is an EEb the answer? That's the only key tuba I've never played (although learning fingerings has never been a problem for me). Are there any (reasonably priced) EEb tubas that are really as versatile as some people seem to believe?

Also, any general advice on getting back to playing? Anyone out there who was very serious at one point, completely stopped for several years, and then got back into playing (but less seriously)? What have been the most satisfying ways to get back into playing?

Or should I just spend my time becoming a better piano player?

[Rick Denney]

My first issue is a horn....Is an EEb the answer?...

Also, any general advice on getting back to playing? Anyone out there who was very serious at one point, completely stopped for several years, and then got back into playing (but less seriously)?

There are lots of us who have stopped for a period of years and then started again.

You should think about why you stopped. Life always goes in different directions--there must be something more specific. It always comes down to this: Whatever you thought life was putting in front of you was more important to you than playing. For this to be true, either that other stuff was profoundly important (which, to be honest, is pretty unusual), or the importance of playing had been undermined. If you can figure out why it was undermined, then you'll know what to avoid upon your return.

For example, some people are driven to be the world's best at whatever they do, and if they can't achieve that, they can't tolerate what they perceive as mediocrity. Other people measure their success by the money they earn doing it (always a bad thing, I think), and they make really grumpy and grouchy amateurs. Still others got burned out on the constant exposure to playing and just needed a rest. In my case, I could not afford my own instrument and thus could not practice enough in that first summer to retain membership in the band in which I'd played as a freshman in college. At the time, I was consumed by other interests and didn't see the loss.

One of those other activities was photography, which I did extensively on a professional level while in college. I completely burned out on it, with the result that I took nothing but vacation snapshots for about 6 or 7 years after college. But then, I gradually came to realize that as an amateur, I could be just as serious as I wanted to be, with no concern at all about anyone else's opinions of my work, and I built a darkroom and got back into it. I was never at that high a level with the tuba, but I followed the same approach there. I bring it up because I was as advanced as a photographer as a typical graduate-in-performance tuba player, so the experience strikes are your issue more closely. I came back when motivation drove me to. The real advantage of being an amateur is that we don't have to go any further than we want to.

The first step is to get an instrument--any instrument. But rather than trying to get the do-all instrument, try getting one that will work for the sorts of playing that you will do at least for a while. Most amateurs play in ensembles, so pick an instrument good for ensemble use. I would think that a contrabass will be more broadly useful in those applications than even a big EEb, and the Eb tubas that can compete for that sort of versatility are pretty expensive compared to an older, used CC. Used Eb's tend to be of the ancient American design--noble of sound but funky of intonation.

A used instrument has another advantage. If you pay a reasonable price for it, you'll get the same money for it if it doesn't do what you want. The notion that we can only buy one instrument for all time just doesn't make sense to me. For example, if you buy a Miraphone 186CC and pay, say, $4000 for it, it will still be worth $4000 two years from now when you've come into more money and would rather have something different. New instruments depreciate.

If money is a big issue (i.e., if you don't have at least $4000 to spend), then you might even consider going back to Bb, where good horns are less expensive. Again, a good used horn won't lose value, so there is little actual risk. But if you will already be struggling with the notion of not being a professional, a Bb tuba might mess with your brain. Fix that issue first.

Come on in, the water's fine.

Rick "doing limited professional photography--again--after several decades" Denney

[scottw]

Also, any general advice on getting back to playing? Anyone out there who was very serious at one point, completely stopped for several years, and then got back into playing (but less seriously)? What have been the most satisfying ways to get back into playing?


I might qualify for that! I stopped for a number of years due to a couple things: The need to earn more than I could playing tuba, the needs of a family life, even turned off to the fun of music by the reality of teaching it.
I eventually got back into it after I stopped teaching and have never regretted doing so! I play in a few community bands, brass ensembles and the like and am having a ball. That is something I'd recommend to you, too. There are some really good and some really bad and a lot of in-between bands out there and they almost all need tubas! I bought a used Mirafone 186 pretty cheap, fixed a few things and still can sell it tomorrow for what I have invested. That is not the case for either a new horn or a poor quality Chinese tuba or the like--they do not hold the same value as one of the good makers' tubas.
Good luck---just do it and don't look back at what might have been: that wastes precious resources you can use practicing!

[MaryAnn]

The only thing I would say is don't get an instrument that will drive you nuts because it's not good enough. If you were at master's performance level you won't be happy with a junker. The "usual advice" is to get a used 186 CC if you're a CC guy, and figure you can sell it for what you have in it in a couple years if you want something else.

You sound like you still have the performer's mindset, since you referred to wanting to do solos down the pike....interesting how that never goes away, even for those of us who gave up pro music for something "better."

MA

[Lew]

I think that an EEb is a good all-around horn that can provide a foundation for a small band, yet can have a good soloistic sound in the right hands. Since picking one up in January of this year I find that I really enjoy playing it vs. my other horns. I have a Besson 983, which some have found not to have enough core to support a large group, but which I find is plenty for the groups I'm in.

Some of the Eb tubas that work as an all around horn are the Meinl-Weston 2141, Willson 3400, or Besson 983. None of these is likely to be particularly inexpensive. A more economical route would be the Yamaha YEB 321. I have never played one, but they seem to be available for reasonable prices, and others have sworn by them.

As for getting back into playing, I suggest finding a community band/orchestra in your area and just joining in. They will most likely welcome another tuba player, and it's a good way to get to know some of the other musicians in the area and other musical opportunities.

[ken k]

If yo think you can deal with the 3+1 compensating valve combination, the Besson 981 is a good sized instrument for ensembles and also a great solo voice.
ken k

[Uncle Buck]

Addendum to my original post:
My town has a community orchestra, but no community band. If I were to get an EEb, has anyone out there had experience playing orchestra literature on an EEb?

I've found some of the arguments for a CC convincing, though. I may just have to face the reality that I will never play the Vaughan Williams Concerto again, and get a good all-around CC.

[Matt G]

Uncle Buck,

First off, put that hatchet back into your trunk.

Second, I would recommend poking around for a little bit to find a used Conn 3J like you used to own. These horns are pretty consistent and I like them as good tubas to play in a decent sized band and you can use them on some of the solo lit as well. Also, a good option is the Conn 2J. In fact, Dillon Music (http://www.dillonmusic.com) has one on hand for just under $2700. Both of these choices would seem a little more familiar to you and might help you on the "learning curve" you'll be on.

FWIW, a good EEb is a very versitile horn. However, they pop up fairly rarely and are fairly expensive. If you did tote one into a community orchestra, the 'bones might hassle you because the bell will be in their ears.

A Miraphone is a good choice also, but will cost more than the others, even the Conn. I would contact either Matt Walters at Dillon's or one of the fellas at Baltimore Brass (also in the links section). They will do their best to help you out and dealing with someone like them will help if your itch gets worse and only another tuba can help...

Good Luck!

[Chuck(G)]

Addendum to my original post:
My town has a community orchestra, but no community band. If I were to get an EEb, has anyone out there had experience playing orchestra literature on an EEb?

A largish Eb works fine--legions of British tuba players such as John Fletcher have used them. You may also want to consider the Besson 981--a large Eb in a 3+1 compensating configuration.

[ken k]

I use my Boosey & Hawkes (Besson) 981 for Pops orchestra, Show Pit orchestra, band work, Choral Society orchestra, brass qunitet and tuba/euph quartet (top tuba part) I have not used it for any big time classical symphony orchetsra type stuff other than the excerpt work our "Pops" orchetstra does.

ken k

[Lew]

This recently popped up on ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 16987&rd=1

If the price doesn't go too high, it may be a reasonable way to get something like the 3J taht you said you liked.

[Phil Dawson]

Go looking for a used 3J. I own one (not for sale) but it is a greaat horn all be it with a smallish bore. I use mine for quintet work and a bigger CC for orchestra and band work. I have used the 3J in the past in those settings and know others that have also. It works fine especially in an non-pro setting. I have seen them in the $2-3000 range. If you liked that horn go get another one. Good luck,
Phil

[tubatooter1940]

I played B-flat tuba in school and B-flat trumpet and trombone for 30 years after that but bought an E-flat tuba for fun and and found it to be
very practical for our local music scene.It is smaller and light weight and the transition was easier than I anticipated.Used E-flat tubas are cheapest of all (I don't know why that is) and I got lucky on E-bay and found an old King that blows just fine.I can only wish you to have as much fun getting back into tuba as I have.
The Fart Man

[Matt G]

Saw this on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 16987&rd=1

Decent 2J, needs work, might suit your needs if you are still in the market.

[Steve Inman]

That's me at the left with the Besson 983 Eb I used to play. In my tuba journey, I started on BBb, switched to Eb as my only tuba, then to a combination of F and CC and now I'm back to Eb and CC -- but only recently, and my Eb is down in Atlanta, GA for a few alterations. So, I haven't found out yet how challenging it will be to keep CC and Eb fingerings separate (and correct). I'm an adult amateur player who plays in trios, quartets, quintets, brass choir, community concert band and civic theater pit orchestra settings.

Here are a few thoughts -- these are my OPINIONS and my personal OBSERVATIONS. Others will most certainly have different ones.

1. A Willson 3400 Eb tuba is, IMO, the best all-around tuba on the planet. I recently had the chance to hear the local symphony tubist play my Conn 56J CC and his Willson 3400 Eb back-to-back with the same mouthpiece. The Willson compared favorably with the Conn. The Conn had a broader voice, but the Willson did not sound small in comparison. It had a nice full sound, but not as full or broad as the Conn -- "cleaner" or "clearer" was my thought. If I had to have only one tuba, it would be the Willson 3400.
[ Others will tell you the same thing about the Besson 981 and the Meinl Weston 2141, and I would never disagree with their opinion or observation to this effect. ]

Now the bad news about the Willson Eb -- they're frightfully expensive. One was posted on this site a few months ago. IIRC, the asking price was $5500, and I thought this was a steal.

Other very respectable Eb tubas include the NEW Meinl Weston 2141 (be sure it was built in the last few years -- the early ones were known to have intonation problems) or the Besson 981 compensating Eb. The Besson 983 compensating Eb is also a nice horn, but has a little smaller sound output than the others.

2. The Yamaha YEB-321 Eb tuba is IMO the BEST VALUE of almost any tuba on the planet. It puts out a volume of sound that is surprising, in light of it's more modest size. It has the same bore as the Willson (don't believe the Willson bore specs -- they allegedly measure the OUTSIDE DIAMETER of their tubing. According to an older TubeNet post the Willson Eb has about a .690 bore for the first few valves -- same as the YEB-321). However the Yamaha has a 15" bell. The sound is full but focused.

The good news -- these 4V Eb tubas don't cost all that much and are frequently available.

I question whether you could use this as your only horn. BUT if you always end up playing in a tuba SECTION, then you would / could play upper octaves on Sousa marches, etc, and add punch and clarity to the bass section. If you're always playing with at least one other tuba (preferably and probably a contrabass) then you'll make a very good contribution to the section with the YEB-321 AND you've got a very decent solo horn as well.

Also worth noting, you will occasionally see a 5V version of this horn (I happen to have one at the present). This 5V version has the 5th valve inserted into the 4th valve tubing (dependent valve) and it lowers the pitch a "long half step". This ensures you can play the low F well in tune. I'm not sure about the low E natural, however. One of the modifications Lee Stofer is trying to develop for my Eb at the present time is a way to fabricate an extension for this 5th valve slide so that I can optionally lengthen it to a "long whole step" tuning. This way it will have the "standard" 5th valve and would be compatible with the fingerings used for other 5V Eb tubas.

3. My recommendations:
a. Buy a YEB-321 as your only horn. Buy two mouthpieces --
a Conn Helleberg (the large one) and a Conn Helleberg 2B
(the small one). Use the large one in ensembles and the
small one for solo playing.

b. OR -- buy another Conn CC like you used to have (for now)
Later, supplement that with the YEB-321 or any number of
4V or 5V F tubas that are floating around for about $2K used.
The F tubas in this category would be like a Cerveny 654-4
(or the older Amati equivalent), a Miraphone 180, etc. These
F tubas are probably ONLY suitable for solo playing, and do
have limitations and quirks. But they aren't terribly expensive.

These are the lowest cost options I can think of, except for:
c. Make the YEB-321 your primary horn as suggested in 3A above.
Supplement THAT tuba with a 3V BBb "clunker" for ensemble
playing. That's the cheapest 2-tuba option I can think of that
actually might work out reasonably well.

That's all the (potentially) helpful rambling I can think of. Good luck!

[Steve Inman]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 75090&rd=1

Here is one of the "inexpensive" F tubas you'll see occasionally (referred to in my previous post).

Cheers,