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Hello everyone, I have a project to buy a Holton Monster in EEb with vertical valves and adapt a set of front action valves. Has anyone here ever done this kind of work? Someone give me an opinion.
Thanks

I recently bought an old Holton monster EEb and took it to Lee Stofer at the Army Band conference to see if he could put a set of Kanstul valves from their new EEb's.

It seemed like it would work quite well. The only problem being I have no money to pay for the project.

If you already have a set of valves is a good start. From what I know of a set of valves Kanstul is a bit expensive. But I agree with you that "no money". I'm looking to buy a set of valves of a Conn Sousaphone, or rather two sets in order to make a 4V.
Good luck

I have done it to a couple of BBb tubas, and it is definitely worth the time and trouble if you do it yourself.

One thing to think about before you light your torch: on some top-action tubas the first loop after the valve section is rather small, which can make it difficult to fit in a front-action piston set.

For an Eb tuba I would look for a King BBb valve block, and shorten the tubing. King bore is a bit small for BBb, but just right (in my opinion) for Eb tubas. If you can only find a 3-valve unit, it's not too hard to stick in a rotary 4th valve similar to the 5th valve on many modern CC tubas.

Another possibility is to go all-rotary. Chinese rotary valve sections can be obtained at reasonable prices, but for some reason they don't want to sell piston valve sections.

I understood, but now was in doubt. I've been looking at models of E flat Tubas and front and top action and realized that the configuration of the turns are different in the case of Tubas Top these turns are shorter than in Tubas Front. How to avoid problems later with the intonation? To help in my analysis this morning I looked at eBay and saw this: http://cgi.ebay.com/Homemade-4-valve-CC ... 500wt_1156" target="_blank
Something went wrong when it comes to intonation. I do not want to do an adaptation like this and then having to move the tuning curve.

Did you see this?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Conn-Monster-Eb-Tub ... _500wt_956

rodgeman wrote:Did you see this?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Conn-Monster-Eb-Tub ... _500wt_956

Say, now -- that looketh not-badly-at-all! Price isn't bad either (so far). Might want to add a push-pull rod + handle on the 1st valve slide ... or not.

Yeah, I have done reconfiguration projects in the past and am currently working on a J. W. York 6/4 BBb. I will soon be starting on a Eb J.W. York ''Monster''.

I would first have to offer the question, what kind of final product do you want? I ask because if you want to simply scab a bunch of scrap bits and pieces together, odds are pretty good, you will have pretty mediocre results and the time and money invested will go down a rabbit-hole. What I am saying is, if your going to do it, do it right.

Keep in mind that the horn was designed the way it is and you are dramatically changing that original design. The front-action horns used many of the same parts as the top-action model but the interior branches are often very different from each other, both in taper and length.

Reconfiguring a horn is all about balance. The eBay horn dantetuba shared, has no such balance. The right way to go about it requires the proper valve assembly and to find it you will need to be patient and keep looking until you acquire the right one. If you can find a couple old Holton front action sets, a four valve set can be constructed. I personally don't build them unless I have to but when I do, I will take the time to hard-solder the forth and do it so it looks proper and not just stuck on with a ferrule and a few odd braces. I know the home-do-it-yourself folks tend to use that approach (and thats fine) but if you want it to look right, play right and actually be worth more then a bunch of scabbed together scrap, take the time and expense and do it up nice and proper. When the project is completed, you will be glad you did.

Also, the problem that commonly shows up when reconfiguring a tuba is the branch length issue. Going from top-action to front-action typically presents a loss of overall length and that can be pretty serious. Just making a longer tuning slide works to a degree but can and often does impact the overall scale of the horn. It also looks odd. This can through out the horns ability to play in tune with itself (note the tuning stick on the eBay tuba? hmmm). On the BBb York that I am currently working on, If I remember correctly, it had a considerable length alteration around 7-10 inches!. I made the correction in the sixth branch by making a new one with the proper taper and adjusted length. I also took advantage of the moment to help center and align the valve section where it would be properly located, balancing the look and feel of the horn. Sure its a lot of work but this is not a simple week end ''romp'' its a big job sorting out the issues and making the needed corrections. The original sixth branch on the York had a narrow radius that did double duty as a hand-rest. It had a odd dog-leg in it that interfered with the placement of the master tuning slide as well as the valve block. So, it had to be replaced anyway, why not kill two bird with one stone? You will most probably make the same alteration on your Holton's forth branch. Also, if you pursue the project, round up the proper matching braces,etc. Try your best to have a little continuity in the instruments final look. And when you have it all sorted out, clean it up and get it finished. Polished raw brass, lacquer, silver makes no difference, just do it. A job done well is a job well done. I expect a full report, in detail. Be sure to show your work so it can be shared with the rest of the class. Have fun and good luck.

Daniel C. Oberloh
Oberloh Woodwind and Brass Works
http://www.oberloh.com" target="_blank" target="_blank

Daniel C. Oberloh wrote: I would first have to offer the question, what kind of final product do you want? I ask because if you want to simply scab a bunch of scrap bits and pieces together, odds are pretty good, you will have pretty mediocre results and the time and money invested will go down a rabbit-hole. What I am saying is, if your going to do it, do it right.

Keep in mind that the horn was designed the way it is and you are dramatically changing that original design.

Perfect advice Dan.

Hello Dan,
Thanks for the tip.

I wonder if I measure the ledpipe to a point of reference, such as a solder joint after the tuning curve, can help me not affect the tuning.

I'm sorry for drawing badly done, but to illustrate what you said about missing length of pipe,
I can then calculate these differences and add on both tubes of tuning curve ? Of course, balancing the two tubes that give of encounter with tuning curve making it bigger. Is that it?

Thanks

dantetuba wrote:Hello Dan,
Thanks for the tip.

Glad I could provide a little assistance.

You are on the right path but before the layout of the design can be configured, you will need to know exactly what valve casing pattern is to be used. You can then workout from there.


Dan'l

Thank you all for your help, so I start my project, I'll post some photos.

Hello everyone on Tubenet,

I Would like your opinion, as you can see I found a set of valves in a souzaphone Eb.
However if I use this set of slides 1 and 3 piston will move down, it would clearly be very useful for the flow of water, but and to adjust the tuning? It will be very difficult.
What do I do? Bought another set of valves or invert the tubes? It will be a very difficult job.

Thanks

Without wanting to overly dampen your enthusiasm, you may be wise to consider whether it is really worth the money and time you will need to invest in this project to get a result which can not be guaranteed to be a good one. You might get lucky and achieve a good result but, it is more likely that you will end up with something not as good as what you started with.

I would be inclined to recommend waiting until you find a front action model, hopefully 4v, and if need be have valves refitted, etc.

If you do go ahead with this project, take Dan O's advice. Take the time, and expense, to do it right. Either way; have fun and good luck.

One thing is sure, I will spend time and money ...