TubeNet

When asked what make and model this tuba is, Chris Schmidt, its lucky owner, answered, "It's a Kaiser BBb, purchased from eBay."
These questions certainly are not meant to embarrass Chris (besides, I'd like to try the horn someday!), but I'm curious:

Is "Kaiser" the name of a company, builder, or brand? I thought the term simply referred to a style or size of horn.

Who is the manufacturer of this tuba, and is there an actual model designation? Has anyone besides Chris seen or does anyone else own a tuba exactly like this one?

Steve Marcus wrote:When asked what make and model this tuba is, Chris Schmidt, its lucky owner, answered, "It's a Kaiser BBb, purchased from eBay."

Kaiser--Chris Schmidt.jpg

These questions certainly are not meant to embarrass Chris (besides, I'd like to try the horn someday!), but I'm curious:

Is "Kaiser" the name of a company, builder, or brand? I thought the term simply referred to a style or size of horn.

Who is the manufacturer of this tuba, and is there an actual model designation? Has anyone besides Chris seen or does anyone else own a tuba exactly like this one?

Looks like a Cerveny CBB-601 to me -- and yes, "Kaiser" is a reference to the size of the instrument (largest, as in the King or Emperor).

Bloody hell, that things huge!

Adding it to my "list of instruments to play / buy".

Kevin Hendrick wrote:..... Looks like a Cerveny CBB-601 to me -- and yes, "Kaiser" is a reference to the size of the instrument (largest, as in the King or Emperor).

Yes... I also think this is a 601 or a close variant.

This one is now living Louisiana.

By the way - I believe that's the same word as caesar, just spelled according to German practice.

TubaTinker wrote:

Kevin Hendrick wrote:..... Looks like a Cerveny CBB-601 to me -- and yes, "Kaiser" is a reference to the size of the instrument (largest, as in the King or Emperor).

Yes... I also think this is a 601 or a close variant.

This one is now living Louisiana.

I can now see why that would have been "interesting" to ship to me overseas!

bloke wrote:.
I would like to see the original advertising.

Me too. I call mine an "Orchestra Grand Bass" because that's what TE calls the two they've got in their historical collection. Mine predates the model number system, so it's definitely not a 36J, which is what the previous owner called it. I assume the TE folks know what they're called, but to be sure I've been looking for Conn catalogues from around 1915. No luck so far.

Steve Marcus wrote:When asked what make and model this tuba is, Chris Schmidt, its lucky owner, answered, "It's a Kaiser BBb, purchased from eBay."

Kaiser--Chris Schmidt.jpg

These questions certainly are not meant to embarrass Chris (besides, I'd like to try the horn someday!), but I'm curious:

Is "Kaiser" the name of a company, builder, or brand? I thought the term simply referred to a style or size of horn.

Who is the manufacturer of this tuba, and is there an actual model designation? Has anyone besides Chris seen or does anyone else own a tuba exactly like this one?

Great picture!

It looks a very lot like the Bohland & Fuchs kaiser tuba that Mr. Walter Nirschl recently made a 'remake' of.
It was modelled after a historical instrument from Mr. Walter Hilgers.

It is sold by Mr. Tucci:
http://www.hornboerse.de/lshop,showdeta ... -bf,,,.htm

That instrument was also briefly discussed on this forum:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=41406&hilit=kaiser+hilgers

Wim

Here's a link to the (I think) current version:

http://www.cerveny.biz/tuben/bbb_tuben/cbb601_4mr.php

The Kaiser term for a big tuba may be seen in the light of tuba history still being young, when when Germany became a unified Kaiserreich in 1871.

Kaiser also is family name. And the prominent German soccer player Franz Beckenbauer was nicknamed Kaiser Franz.

Somebody more recently has taken that opportunity to market brass instruments under the brand of Franz Kaiser, even adding Originale Handwerk (Original handcraft). I may have ideas about where these instruments come from, but I have no proof.

Klaus

With the increased interest in 6/4 BBb tubas by major tubists in the US, is there an M-W 197 at TubaDome or anywhere else in the States?

Since Dillon Music dropped the Meister Walter Nirschl series, there is apparently no dealer in the US stocking them (there may be some of the Brazilian-built W. Nirschls around). Where would one try the Kaiser BBb built by Walter Nirschl? Is it even a stock item or just available by special order?

Does one have to travel to Germany to visit the factories and/or retailers to try the M-W 197, the Boehm & Fuchs Kaiser, and the Meister Walter Nirschl BBb Kaiser model? And while we're at it, does anyone in the States stock the Cerveny 601, 701, or 696?

Would any of these horns be on display at the Midwest Band and Orchestra Clinic in December or at any other conference?

"Kaiser" can be an actual model, or a synonym for "BAT."

Böhm & Fuchs would be new to me. Bohland & Fuchs was a renowned pre-WWII maker. Now it is a stencil brand made by Amati/Cerveny.

Not even visiting one of the makers will necessarily give access to test playing any given model. Very few, if any, makers build tubas for storage.

Klaus

Maybe ask David Fedderly about the MW 197? He carries the full line, so he'd probably know the long and short of it. I would guess though that any 6/4 Kaiser BBb is in short supply here in the US based on the very low demand and the very high cost.

I hadn't heard/noticed that Nirschl is no longer stocked by Dillon's, and that's a shame.

That said, to me at least, there are many, many things worse in life than taking a trip to Germany to visit tuba factories. It's not cheap, but I'm sure it would be unforgettable.

Steve Marcus wrote:... does anyone in the States stock the Cerveny 601, 701, or 696?

Dillon and WWBW both list the 601s (BBb and CC), but not the other two. WWBW shows both 601s in stock, Dillon's web site doesn't indicate what their "stock status" is.

Steve Marcus wrote:Does one have to travel to Germany to visit the factories and/or retailers to try the M-W 197

I don't think you would have much luck in finding 197 at the factory, or shops in Germany to try. I believe it is only made to special order. It is a model that sounds terrific played well, but I understand has very 'difficult' intonation.

If I was looking for Kaiser BBb, then the Nirschl would be top of my list to try. The price at Robert Tucci shop sounds very reasonable for handmade Kaiser. A MW 197 would no doubt cost a lot more.
http://www.hornboerse.de/lshop,showdeta ... -bf,,,.htm

Isn't the Miraphone Siegfried prototype going to be this size?

Has anyone heard if it is going to hit production soon? I checked a couple of months ago with Miraphone and they did not have a timeline.

Neptune wrote:It is a model that sounds terrific played well...

I went to a Berlin Philharmonic concert back in December, and Alexander von Puttkamer sounded absolutely amazing on his 197!

The big Miraphone Bb is massive; it's like a 191 and a half*. The Fafner is super tall but not as big in the tubing as the Miraphone. I remember sitting down to play it at Midwest. I offered an exclamation of dubious language at the size of it; Steve Ferguson and Markus Theinart laughed and said it looked like a regular tuba on me.

However, while it looks like the 191 from hell it is a bit more "distant" and not quite as charming to play as the 191. Still a nice horn. I don't particularly like the Fafner or the piston Fafner. Though smaller the 1291 and 191 are my favorite big Bb tubas (indeed, my favorite contrabass tubas ever).

*I'd -love- to see a picture of it next to the big rotary Willson Bb next to a 191.

rodgeman wrote:Isn't the Miraphone Siegfried prototype going to be this size?

Here are the specifications that are purportedly provided by the manufacturers on their largest BBb tubas:

--------SIEGFRIED----M-W 197/198-----CERVENY 601/701/696-----HIRSBRUNNER HBS 193
Height -----100 cm/39.4"-----114 cm/44.9"-----112 cm/44.09"-------------112 cm/44.09"
Bell diameter-----50 cm/19.7"-----46 cm/18.1"-----50 cm/19.7" ------------- 48 cm/18.9"
Bore---------------21-24mm---------21.5 mm/.846"------21.2mm/.827" -----------20.5mm/.807"
-----------------------.827"-.945"

The only specification shown on the Rudolf Meinl website for the "6/4" BBb tuba is the bell diameter: 56 cm/22".
I would imagine that Herr Meinl would supply the other specifications if an inquiry were addressed to him directly. Also, there are at least two 6/4 Rudy Meinl BBb tuba owners who read TubeNet.

Unfortunately, there are no specifications shown on the 6/4 Meister Walter Nirschl BBb Kaiser tuba. The only spec provided for the Boehm & Meinl Model 555 6/4 BBb is the bell diameter: 48cm/18.9"

The information on the Hirsbrunner is listed for comparison only because that horn is probably no longer built.

Has anyone heard if it is going to hit production soon? I checked a couple of months ago with Miraphone and they did not have a timeline.

According to correspondence with one of the engineers assigned to the Siegfried project, the estimated release date is late autumn 2011.

FWIW, the Siegfried is the only tuba listed above that I have played for more than 10 minutes (I played a 6/4 Rudi for that amount of time--much more time would be needed to get comfortable with its demand for slow, thick air). The Siegfried was very easy to play. I'd certainly like the opportunity to play the other models before I would buy one of these 6/4 BBb tubas.

The differences between the Cerveny 601, 701, and 696 are not clear, except that the 601 and 701 are heavier than the 696. Perhaps the diameter of the throats differ, but that is not stated in any manufacturer's specs (where on the throat would one measure for uniformity--just before the bell flare?).