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I need some help on buying a new tuba. Right now, I have a 3 valve BBb student horn. Eventually, I want to be a professional tuba player. (I'm a sophomore in high school so I've got some time.) The problem is, I'm obviously going to meed a new horn, but what to buy? I have a very limited budget (basically, I won't be able to buy anything over 2k to 3k) Since finding a job as a tuba player is extremely difficult, I need a horn that will keep the most options open for me and something that can be used in a variety of styles.
I've had my eye on the JinBao 5 Valve CC tuba sold by Al at BigBottomMusic (for $1,600.00 in Lacquer) but a retiring professor I know has a 5 valve BBb that he's considering selling for "much less" than the CC I'm looking at. If he decides to sell this horn, I'll be able play test it and it would be less expensive.
I just wanted to tap the vast amount of tuba knowlage on this forum and ask the question-Whhich should I buy, BBb or CC?

What do you have now? It'd be nice to have a backup horn but you could sell it to add to the tuba fund. Hell, what' the "much less" horn too?

http://cgi.ebay.com/BBb-tuba-4-valves-u ... 3368ea2475" target="_blank

There's also a 4 valve 186 C and a 4 valve Cervey C for under 2 grand on ebay now as well as a 3+1 Besson comp Bb for 950. I'm not a C guy but a horn is a horn.
Also "budget horns", I really like the tall VMI rotary Bb tubas.

Don't buy anything now unless you're certain you can recover your investment. When the time comes for a serious 'upgrade'... you need to set your sights on a school and a teacher. Then... ask them.

This Bb vs. C thing has been a discussion for years, and you'll find rehashes of the arguments in the archives of this message board.

To me: The key doesn't matter. If you find a good horn, get the good horn. Your playing is what counts.

Digging deeper, though, I think that you are making this horn-buying idea more urgent than it needs to be. Yes, of course it's great to have a nice, quality instrument with x valves and whatnot, but since you are still in high school and currently have an instrument, you might be better served by saving some money for a few years and look at buying a tuba when you graduate from high school. By then, you should have the money to get something really nice that you really want as opposed to buying whatever is the cheapest right now because of a false dilemma. I don't know all the facts of your situation, but this is just my initial thinking and just one idea.

If you're looking for a good budget horn for the time being, I would actually really suggest one of those old German stencils (Sonora, Karl Weiss, Weltklang, etc). If you're lucky you can find one for under 2000. These are all generally in BBb and with 4 valves, though. (There's also one in the classifieds right now, but I think it's going for more than 2000... Make an offer, he's been bumping it for months.) I bought one of these and even with some monster dents it's a really good, versatile horn. (At least the B&S version, can't comment on the Cerveny.)

Two things to consider; First is that as a sophomore in high school, you WILL buy another horn at a later time. I bought a Willson 2975 euphonium my sophomore year thinking it was my dream horn for life. Senior year I was looking for a new one because the high range was out of tune and none of my potential instructors liked it. (Though I still miss the front valves. ) So I would suggest getting a moderately priced decent horn for now and worrying about "the final choice" (which is never the actual final choice) later. Oh, and the second thing was that most professionals play on CC. So it's likely you will need to learn those fingerings eventually, but like I said, one thing at a time.

If that professor has a good deal on that BBb and you like how it plays, I'd say go for it. If he's selling it for that much lower, then you can probably sell it again later if need be.

When I was your age I had to have a new tuba, and it had to be a CC. My parents bought me a Chinese Dalyan Apollo CC tuba. I thought it was the greatest thing ever, for a while. By the time I was a freshman in college, and got to play other tubas and realized how limiting my tuba was. After having my parents put up the money for the Dalyan, it was VERY difficult to get a new, good instrument, and it resulted in a lot of aggravation trying to get the money. I know it is hard, but I would suggest waiting, I wish I did. Maybe you will be able to expand that limiting budget to something a little less limiting by the time you get to college. I haven't played a JinBao, but I have played a lot of Cloned horns, and I feel like you will be in the market for a new tuba in a couple of years if you go through with it.

The Jackson wrote:This Bb vs. C thing has been a discussion for years, and you'll find rehashes of the arguments in the archives of this message board.

To me: The key doesn't matter. If you find a good horn, get the good horn. Your playing is what counts.

Digging deeper, though, I think that you are making this horn-buying idea more urgent than it needs to be. Yes, of course it's great to have a nice, quality instrument with x valves and whatnot, but since you are still in high school and currently have an instrument, you might be better served by saving some money for a few years and look at buying a tuba when you graduate from high school. By then, you should have the money to get something really nice that you really want as opposed to buying whatever is the cheapest right now because of a false dilemma. I don't know all the facts of your situation, but this is just my initial thinking and just one idea.

Like I said, I've got some time, right now, I only have about $650 saved up so It's nothing urgent. I just wanted to know some people's opinions, I figure the earlier I make up my mind, the better horn I can get. I'm not planning on actually buying a new tuba for a couple of years, but thanks for your concern.

I'd like to thank everyone for the replies.
Yes,goodgigs, I'll be open to any new horns that may come along, and there is a community band in my area, which I'm in. Also, I live near the University Of Illinois, which has a great school of music. Ive talked with their tuba professor, Mark Moore several times and I know several members of the Marching Illini.
Now that I have been advised to wait before rushing in to a bad purchase, a new question arrises: what BBb/CC horns so you recommend?

SousaWarrior9 wrote: . . .
I've had my eve in the JinBao 5 Valve CC tuba sold by Al at BigBottomMusic (for $1,600.00 in Lacquer) but a retiring professor I know has a 5 valve BBb that he's considering selling for "much less" than the CC I'm looking at. If he decides to sell this horn, I'll be able play test it and it would be less expensive.
. . . .

This 5 valve BBb tuba that the retiring professor is selling for less than $1600 is likely a deal. You should buy that. I might say different if I knew what it was. You will likely change your mind about what you want to be when you grow up several times between now and the time you graduate from college. The BBb, depending on what it is, would probably be the better choice for now.

I agree... there aren't many 5 valve BBb's out there, and when they are, they are typically nicer tubas. Not to mention, I have rarely heard of a tuba professor selling off a horn that is absolute junk.

Beyond that, I'd say your absolute safest bet is a Miraphone 186 (BBb or CC). You can sometimes get a used one pretty cheap on eBay, they are always available, and would be very easy to resell (with very high return) if you want to change/switch/upgrade later on. No, you probably don't see a ton of pros playing 186's. But I guarantee that a lot of pros have owned one at some point early in his/her career.

CC

Hi!
What make is the Tuba in question? Even if it's a JinBao 1291 clone, you should buy it!!! If it's an older Miraphone in playing shape, BUY IT, and worry about cutting the 5th. down later, if that's your preference! A lot of players on this forum still prefer the 2+3 substitute over the long 1st.! It sounds like your professor friend is trying to help you out, and you should consider yourself lucky you have an opportunity to purchase a Tuba you can try before you buy, instead of spending 2 grand on an instrument that needs work!

Al

bort wrote: No, you probably don't see a ton of pros playing 186's. But I guarantee that a lot of pros have owned one at some point early in his/her career.

Big Gene won a few gigs with one.

Yup... Warren Deck won some with his MW-32 as well, which is kinda similar.

bort wrote:Yup... Warren Deck won some with his MW-32 as well, which is kinda similar.

So, if I get a 186 or MW 32, will I play like Pokorny and Deck?

Mark wrote:

bort wrote:Yup... Warren Deck won some with his MW-32 as well, which is kinda similar.

So, if I get a 186 or MW 32, will I play like Pokorny and Deck?

It depends on the basic plumbing God gave you plus a lot of practice.

Actually it was all the horn so everyone should get a MW-32 or Mira 186 and you'll be just as good as them without even practicing.

Turns out the professor probably won't be selling the 5 valve BBb
so I guess its back to saving up for a CC for the next couple of years

WHAT was it? FWIW, those Schillbrunners are quite nice, easy playing horns.
Did you not check out the links and eBay horns from my first post? Those Weltklang/VMI Bb's rock- I find them clearer and easier to play than 186's.

For a big contrabass I pick Bb all night and all day. Big Bb's give me -whatever it is- that big C's cannot. I'm a bass tuba guy; when I play a contrabass I want a big, badass horn with THE sound. Let me quote myself -

Bob Kolada wrote:One of my favorite quotes on here-

Haugan wrote:It seems silly to me to shun a horn for it's "BBb ness" when what you are trying to achieve is a bigger more BBb-like sound.

For me that's a Miraphone 191 or 1291 Bb. I don't particularly like the Fafners, don't think the giant Miraphone is quite it, haven't played big Rudys,... None of THAT really helps you except you should keep your eyes open for an affordable 191/try IN PERSON 1291 copies. The 191 is a friggin beast to the extent that it really should be paired up with an easy playing bass tuba for best results.