TubeNet

Okay, I know there have been several threads about this horn but I'm curious If anyone has any new information or experiences.

I'm in the market for a horn that I can play in community bands and small ensembles. I have a small budget but I want to get the bigest bang for my buck! I played a MW 32 through college but sold it soon after I finished school so I have not been actively playing for about 2 years now. Since my chops are not what they used to be, I don't think I would be comfortable sitting down and playing one after years of NOT playing and making a decision so I've come to seek advise from you tubeneters.

The Big Picture: I want a horn mainly for brass quintet but I don't want to be limited to it. I would like to get involved with the community band again and want a horn that would hold its own and carry through the ensemble and not be drowned out.

ALSO, the St. Pete 201L was my first purchase when I was in middle school along time ago. It was ok. Good Sound BUT the slides where crappy, valves not that great, and the finish would almost wipe right off. Have these things improved on the newer ones?

Any shared experiences would be great!


Thanks,


Matt

Here are the specs.

When I playtested one at the Tuba Exchange a couple of years back, it was a very nice horn. Easy response, nice sound. If I hadn't been in the market for an F, I might have bought one.

A lot of this decision boils down to personal choices about what you want the sound to do. I have never been able to get an Eb or F tuba to give me the large foundation tones a lot of people want to provide in a concert band. I feel the same way about brass quintet, although I realize a lot of people (including some professional quintets) prefer the lighter and more transparent sound of a bass tuba instead of a contrabass. There is a long tradition, though, of really good solists (think Bill Bell, Marty Erickson, Oysten Baadsvik, and Pat Sheridan) using Eb tubas for solos, including, in Mr. Bell's case, playing Carnival of Venice with concert bands on an Eb sousaphone).
For the price being asked in the ad, there are dozens of great options, maybe including the small Holton CC on the Tuba Exchange site, which would be more likely to give you a rich concert band/brass quintet foundation while being small enough and cheap enough not to strain your back or break the bank.
As for me, when I have been a one tuba guy, it has always been a Cerveny CC Piggy, mostly for the reasons I outlined above.
Happy hunting!

For the price being asked in the ad, there are dozens of great options, maybe including the small Holton CC

Thanks Tom, I am definitely going to put my lips on the holton as well! I have also been trying to keep one eye open for a "piggy" to pop up somewhere but they don't come available as much as they use to.

Matt

Hi!
I have played numerous 202 BBb's, and have an old clock spring BBb St.Pete. I tried one of the 206 EEb's two years ago, and was nothing but impressed! It played in tune, and the rotors were smooth and fast! Maybe not quite as full sounding below the staff as a 981, or one of my clones, but certainly the best/only deal on a 5-rotor EEb ANYWHERE! If I'm ever offered one in trade, I'll jump on it, have the 5th. cut to a flat whole step, and keep it for myself! No, it's not a Norweigan Star, but it's less than 4 grand!!!

Al

The one or two I've played have been quite nice and the best of the ''budget fullsize rotary bass tuba'' group. They do FEEL a bit cheaper here and there but it's not a big deal.

I will nor discuss a model I haven’t tried. Only I wonder why you will lessen the odds for a happy return to tuba playing by changing pitch and having to relearn fingerings. Try to find a loaner BBb to start out on. When your embouchure is well trained, you will be much better equipped to make the right decisions.

Klaus

I looked into a St Pete Eb. It's not really any lighter in weight than a Miraphone 186. Get the 186 instead. I have used mine in quintet to good effect, and I am sometimes the only tuba supporting a regional community band. The St Pete Eb, with its smaller bell throat, won't support a community band.

iiipopes wrote:The St Pete Eb, with its smaller bell throat, won't support a community band.

This isn't necessarily so. I've supported a community band by myself with my Cerveny 653 F without any problems. Depends a lot on the player.

jonesbrass wrote:

iiipopes wrote:The St Pete Eb, with its smaller bell throat, won't support a community band.

This isn't necessarily so. I've supported a community band by myself with my Cerveny 653 F without any problems. Depends a lot on the player.

And on the community.

If you are not committed to front action or rotary valves then I would suggest you consider a Besson 981 eb 4 valve tuba second hand if you can find one. I gave up looking for one after 2 years and gave a JinBao a go and have been very happy with it's performance after it settled in. I have used an eb tuba for concert band marching band quintet and orchestra playing and have never found it to be limiting I prefer the agility and lightness of an Eb to a Bb I am getting to grips with a Bb euphonium at the moment to see if my brain can cope with new fingerings before deciding to buy any more tubas.
If you can try before you buy a JinBao you should test one you may be surprised.

H i!
As a purveyor of JinBao, and other instruments, I have to say that the "fuller" sound of the 981 style comes at the expense of the added versatility of 5-rotary valves! Either way one goes it will be a bit of work to provide that foundation as the only Tuba in larger ensemble on an EEb instrument compared to a 4/4 sized contra-bass horn. Having said that, the combination of Bass and contra-Bass Tubas, especially on Divisi octave parts, can contribute more to the foundation of an ensemble than two contra's on the lower octave, due to the increased oomph compared to the 3rd. Trombone or Euphonium on octave parts...

As to the fingerings, you may be amazed at how well you memorized those BBb fingerings! I still have trouble playing parts I learned on BBb Tuba years ago! I memorized a lot of challenging sections, and I often have trouble reverting to BBb fingerings with my CC on my lap! The worst is trying to read a part with BBb fingerings penciled in while playing CC or EEb!

If this purchase will likely be your last, take your time! And check the specs. of the axes you're considering again! 1 or 2 pounds may or may not be all that much after all. And be sure and take advantage of any approval time! Time things so your Tuba will arrive in the middle of playing opportunities. I know your chops are out of shape, but you could be buzzing on a used or plastic MP for a small amount of money while you decide what you want! Try as many horns as you can, too!

Good luck,
Al

The Jin Bao is modelled on the Besson Sovereign with its 19 inch bell and wider throat, almost as, if not as, large as a lot of 4/4 CC and BBb instruments.

Someone mentioned an 186 BBb as an option. Liberty Mo, happens to have a Mira 186 BBb for sale and it is within your budget, I'm thinking he is in the $3k range, PM him for pic's and info.

jonesbrass wrote:

iiipopes wrote:The St Pete Eb, with its smaller bell throat, won't support a community band.

This isn't necessarily so. I've supported a community band by myself with my Cerveny 653 F without any problems. Depends a lot on the player.

I've done this too. Not always particularly easy, but it is fun and I love hearing an F tuba sound in a band! Too many American bands have boring all-BBb or BBb and CC only bass sections.

Yes, I've done it on an Eb by myself, and I didn't like it. Insufficient true foundation color as on a BBb or CC. OTOH, I really like it when there are divisi parts or large enough section to diversify the color, or when the group is so small (say, 15 to 25 players) that you're playing in the staff anyway to keep the ensemble tightly knit. I borrowed a small bore Eb for the octave tuba parts when the community band I was in a few years ago played a euph solo for one of the grad student euph performance majors, so my octave tuba parts wouldn't get in the way of the euph solo.

tubaforce wrote:I have to say that the "fuller" sound of the 981 style comes at the expense of the added versatility of 5-rotary valves!

Al, I would have to disagree with you there - the 981 style Eb is probably the most versatile tuba of all. I can think of works with lots of moving around down low which I would not care to try to play on a 5 rotary valve Eb, but are no more difficult on a 981 style Eb than on BBb. And that is despite me personally preferring rotary valves. I think a 5 rotary valve Eb, or F is great to compliment a CC/BBb, but not as sole tuba.

sousaphone68 wrote:gave a JinBao a go and have been very happy with it's performance after it settled in.

Noel, Pleased to hear you are getting on well with the JinBao

I would have to disagree with some of the previous statements about an Eb not being able to support a large ensemble I for many years I was the only Tuba in a youth wind band that was so large it once boasted 11 flutes. In the video below the tuba section is me on a JinBao clone, a Besson 700 eb and a 3/4 size Besson Bb the JinBao is the only tuba at the end of the piece playing with the French horn.
It's not always easy on an Eb but it is possible.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vmzkf1xx ... ata_player" target="_blank" target="_blank

Thank you Jonathan for the shout out and quote

The Hampshire Police Band where I play only has one Besson 982 Eb (played by pro) supporting band of around 40-45 when I am not on gig with my Neptune. I have never heard any complaints.

From what I hear and see that is quite common for wind bands in the UK where Eb's are by far the most common tuba played.