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During my High School days we had one bell front tuba in our arsenal, and old Conn, which we only used when we ran out of upright bell tubas for the section to use. And, when I went looking for Tubas for College, I noticed that they are no longer in production, presumably from lack of interest. I also noticed from watching the for sale section, that they rarely sell. Personally, I don't like them because, playing in a band, I feel that the sound gets lost and/or diminished because it blows into the body of the band. I was just wondering if anybody out there in Tubenet land preferred a bell front tuba and had a reason for it.

Before the recording equipment became sensitive enough to pick up the lower voices, a recording bell tuba was used precisely because it did NOT get "diminished because it blows into the body of the band"---the sound goes over the top and projects so much better than does an upright bell tuba. I think the love died for 3 reasons: 1-The recording industry progress, 2-The need to carry the tuba and another bell case, and 3-Things go in cycles---what is new is adopted, the old is out with the bathwater. Some of those bell-front horns were superb players.

I'd go for a couple of "practical reasons" as well:

It's easy to put down an upright bell instrument when not in use. Setting on the bell, while really not ideal because the bell can/does get smashed in, is easier than finding a place to lay a recording bell instrument on its back. For both horns, a stand should be used when it's not being played but that is yet another thing that needs to be carried along with the instrument, a case or bag, a music stand and the book.

I prefer a bell-front tuba for Dixieland and outdoor performances. As far as not being able to stand the horn on it's bell between tunes... I simply lay the horn across my lap and use a strap to keep it from slipping away. Most often, I 'perch' on a 30" tall stool to put me above the rest of the ensemble... who normally stand.

If I could only have one horn... it would probably have to be one with an upright bell.

However... I think bell-front horns are making a comeback. It seems these days that many folks have more than one horn. ... each for different purposes.

Fashions do go in cycles I am lucky enough to have a good sousaphone in my stable and have been asked to bring it to some concert band performances if I am going to be the only tuba as the conductor enjoys or wants the experience of the bass sound washing over him finds it very useful for certain pieces.
It's also good for scaring guest conductors

thezman wrote:Personally, I don't like them because, playing in a band, I feel that the sound gets lost and/or diminished because it blows into the body of the band. I was just wondering if anybody out there in Tubenet land preferred a bell front tuba and had a reason for it.

Isn't that what's supposed to happen?

Occasionally I have to play outdoors with no band shell or wall behind me and the recording bell is very helpful in getting the sound out. And even when there is a band shell I still prefer to use a recording bell for most concert band work outdoors. I tend to think that recording bell tubas died out when the role of the tuba was expanded to include more brass quintet and solo playing, (solos with piano accomp.). People probably found themselves using the upright bells more and finding less of a need for the recording bell option. One of the primary uses for recording bell tubas was in the dance bands of the 1920s and early '30s. If you find photos of the bands of this time you will usually see either sousaphones or recording bell tubas. This is understandable when you realize that these bands played in enormous dance halls with no real amplification. Several innovators, (Steve Brown being one of them) pioneered string bass playing in dance bands of the '20s. When electrical recording came in (in 1925) it was possible to record the string bass effectively but tubas/sousaphones were a primary bass instrument in dance bands until about 1933 or so.

I will say that if the tuba is being used strictly in the role of a "bass" instrument, recording bells are a great option. It is possible (especially when playing the bigger recording bell tubas) to make a sound akin to a well-played string bass. The idea, in my opinion, is to avoid over-blowing and to let the instrument do the bulk of the work for you. I still recall one of my older college professors using the term "brass bass"!

I've been told that a recording bell tuba was a requirement in the famed Goldman Band of New York City (back when it was REALLY the Goldman Band, when Edwin Franko Goldman conducted it).

My father considered his recording-bell Martin to be a "modern" instrument, and upright-bell rotary-valve tubas to him were "old-fashioned". When I played in NY All-State band there was one upright-bell tuba and six recording-bell instruments. It was not at all unsusual back then to see school-owned recording-bell tubas that were thirty years old and still in daily use. They didn't get mangled the way upright tubas do because you always put them down flat on the floor, under a table.

I remember seeing many concerts by the Goldman Band with all-bell-front tuba sections. The first upright-bell tuba used there in the bandshell on the Mall was Walter Sear's. He told me he would accept the gig only if they let him use an upright tuba and he also had to have his own folder; he would not share a stand.

I suspect that manufacturers are grateful for the demise of recording-bell tubas for two reasons: Upright bells are easier to make, and upright bells don't last long in schools so they have to be replaced more often.

http://galvanizedjazz.com/tuba/ragtimeCD2.html

Read my signature. I concur with everything said above, and everything said above is the reason I have both bells. I have gigs in halls or with good sound shells where the upright really fills the room, and I have the recording bell for outdoor and other similar gigs that can really support an ensemble better. You need both. And its not always either/or for indoor/outdoor. In other words, in my experience it is not always automatic to use the recording bell outdoors and the upright bell indoors. For example, I have one annual outdoor gig in a large marble gazebo with a plaster ceiling. In spite of the gazebo being open all the way around, he upright bell actually does better for that gig because the sound bounces off the plaster ceiling. I have one semiannual indoor gig on a stage with no sound shell, but a lot of theatre curtains and sets with the usual high ceiling for lights, riggings, hoisting sets, etc. I use the recording bell to get the sound off the stage, because any sound out of an upright bell gets lost in the top of the rigging, curtains and sets.

I am on my second horn that has both the upright and recording bells (Conn 25j and Marzan slant rotor). Whenever I am with our community band playing outdoors, the recording bell is the only way to go in order for the bass sound to make it to the audience. I also had the occasion where we were playing in a performing arts center that had lots of curtains and catwalks above the stage. I had brought the upright bell and after around 15 minutes our director asked me how long it would take for me to go back home to get the recording bell (luckily it was only a 10 minute drive). For a "normal" type of indoor stage, I go with the upright to match the looks of the rest of the section. As for a recording bell sound getting muffled by the rest of the band, unless you are sitting on the ground or the rest of the group is standing while you are seated in back, your sound should be going right above their heads.

Jim

I have owned both types over the years. A bell-front tuba was a condition of my being hired for Paul Lavalle's Band of America. I can also say that my bell-front Martin actually got me jobs - Ringling Circus, and numerous dance and jazz bands. I used a bell-front on the Asbury Park Concert Band for five seasons, always playing outdoors (and next to the Atlantic Ocean!) the bell front carried the sound out front in bad acoustical situations - outdoors, low-ceilinged nightclubs in NYC, etc. Made some recordings with it, too.

I preferred King and Martin's approach to the bell-front design - both have a 45-degree angled bell, as opposed to Conn's - and other manufacturers' 90-degree bells. I always felt the Conn design put a wall of brass between the player's ear the sound he/she was producing. Conn sold more 20Js than any other type of tuba at one time. As big as they are, the core of sound doesn't compare to the Martin. I always felt Holtons sounded "wheezy" compared to the Martin also. More than one musician (not tuba players) have made their way to the back of the band to ask what kind of tuba I was playing (the Martin) - and when told what it was asked why didn't all tubas sound like that...true story.

Most of my work involved keeping time - rhythm section work. The bellfront seemed to push the bass line "out front" better as opposed to bouncing the notes off the ceiling and THEN out front. Bass notes are only omnidirectional below the fourth ledger line "F" - the rest of the time the sound goes where you aim it. Having toured across the country I can attest that most acoustics - indoors and out - you encounter are BAD. The bell-front helps a bit with that.

The interchangeable bell is really a practical approach that has now been abandoned. I'm actually thinking of selling my upright bell horn and buying an upright bell for the Martin from Lee Stofer - and do most everything with ONE horn.

Mark Heter

At practice last night out in the neighborhood park, the drummer arriving late observed that he could hear me very clearly from a good ways off (100 yards?), but when he got closer the sound kind of disappeared. Upright bell.

It would be interesting to get the actual angle, for several common bell front models. According to my vague memory of a couple of recording bell Conns I saw, back in the '80s, their bells pointed straight forward, but the bell fronts I've seen since then look more like 45º.

Hi All,

Thought I just put my two cents worth up here. I enjoy playing my old style King 2341 which I have both upright and bellfront bells. I've been using the bellfront bell more often in my jazz bands and find that it projects better for me. Most venues have low drop ceilings or outdoors and if using an upright bell my wife says the sound seems to get lost. I use an old tuba "cradle" stand to sit the instrument in while not playing. It is more to carry for a gig but it's worth it after all is said and done. All in all I say it is what works best for each musician for there choice of bell. Neither one is right or wrong.

Matt

P.S. Lee Stofer did a wonderful job cleaning and upgrading my old style King. If I ever get pictures would love to show off his magic! It's plays and looks like a new horn!!

Donn wrote:At practice last night out in the neighborhood park, the drummer arriving late observed that he could hear me very clearly from a good ways off (100 yards?), but when he got closer the sound kind of disappeared. Upright bell.

It would be interesting to get the actual angle, for several common bell front models. According to my vague memory of a couple of recording bell Conns I saw, back in the '80s, their bells pointed straight forward, but the bell fronts I've seen since then look more like 45º.

The 90 degree bells on those Conns you saw could have been because some nut put a 20K sousaphone bell on a 20J tuba. All of the recording bells I've seen (with the possible exception of the Bessons) has an angle of around 45 degrees.

1) What TubaTinker said - Conn 2Xjs wander in all too often with the 20K bells on em... not cool

2) I try to always have a bell front BBb (I'm between 'em right now). My Eb sousaphone suffices for some things, but not always due to range. Why have one? Because my early jazz gigs and certain traveling shows love it for the sound AND the look! And when there's no shell, it rocks!

3) Martins are consistantly the best I've played of the recording beasts, but I owned a Buescher I regret selling, and the King Monsters are the best BBbs of any sorts ever Martin's are gold standard, though. But for the money, a good-old King is a great deal. Owned 3 of 'em!

J.c.S.

That BM is almost identical to a York Master Model I had right down to the open wrapped fourth valve.Kanstul makes upright bells for these horns. Someone's gonna get a great tuba. Ed

Speaking of 2XJ tubas with 20K bells on them, if anybody has a 20K bell that is superfluous after getting the correct 2XJ recording bell for it, a friend of mine needs a 20K bell to replace the one he had stolen out of storage.