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I just bought a new King 2341 as a second horn and I am concerned about the valves leaking through. When I plug up one side of the main tuning slide and blow into the horn, I can hear air leaking from the bottom side of the valves. Granted I am blowing hard, but I did not expect any leakage. Also, when I pull the tuning slides for each valve and depress the valve, I don't get the pop sound that I would expect. Conn has agreed to replace the horn, but they don't expect other horns to be any tighter. They have told me the valves have additional clearance as this prevents valve sticking problems with school kids who don't properly lubricate them or keep them clean as most of us would. Does anyone have a newer 2341 that has a similar valve problem? I would appreciate any input.
The horn plays well and I can not detect any performance problem with it.
Thanks,
Rick

Hi, Rick,

Take a look at where your leadpipe attaches to the first valve casing. CAREFULLY (or if it's BRAND NEW have a tech do it since I presume it would be warranty work) back off the collar, and see if the silicon is giving you a good seal. On mine (2003 model) I changed it after seeing the uneven looking factory goop, and used an automotive 'O' ring instead (take lead pipe with you to get the right size). Maybe get a couple of them as spares, too. Good Luck- the 2341 King is a very nice horn!

Also, since the breath hits the first valve immediately, be sure to keep #1 well oiled.

Thanks. The air appears to be leaking from the bottom of the valves. As I said, I am blowing hard to create a lot of pressure with one side of the tuning slide plugged. Have you tried pulling each tuning slide and then depressing the valve to see if you get a vacuum pop?? That would tell me a lot. I don't get the vacuum pop like I do on my primary horn and all other horns I have owned.

Rick

Are the valves vented? That would explain the lack of "pop" when you pull the slides...

If it plays fine, leave it alone. It is best not to get up in your head about this sort of stuff if the horn performs well for you.

The effect you are talking about is called "blow by." It is hard to tell how much of this you have without seeing the horn in person. A very wise person once told me, "you can't fix it over the phone..."

If you are still concerned, go back to the shop and ask them if they will GIVE you a bottle of Hetman Classic Piston valve oil. They should since you spent 5000 bucks. Just my opinion.

There is NO WAY the valves are vented on a new King 2341.

BRSousa wrote:There is NO WAY the valves are vented on a new King 2341.

Ah! Well, I learn something new every day!

bort wrote:

BRSousa wrote:There is NO WAY the valves are vented on a new King 2341.

Ah! Well, I learn something new every day!

I'm sure the might do it if you ask nicely, but they don't roll off the assembly line that way.

PS - I am jealous of your Miraphone 188 in gold brass. Those are HEAVENLY...

I've seen other new 2341s with this leakage. The one I tried at the music store where my wife and I work (she does brass and I do strings) got sent back because of the problem, and it is a problem. The horn will not play as well as one that has tight valves that don't leak. I don't tollerate leaking like this in the CC tubas that we build. If I were you I'd send it back. It's a sign of poor quality control and should never have left the factory.
If you got a really, really great deal on it you may want to keep it and have a valve job done. You'll be amazed at the improvement. FWIW
Sam

I own one built in 1959 and another like yours(pre modular construction though) built in 2001.The valves on the old one still pop when I pull the slides and the valves on the newer one barely make any sound. Bloke has said that this is intentional, as did the other previous poster, because they're for the school market and kids don't often oil, or God forbid, clean the valves. My newer King plays very well but just out of curiosity I put heavy oil on the valves to see how it would play if they were tight and there was a distinct difference.If you use the heaviest Hetman's oil the horn will probably seal better and it's cheaper than a valve job, and you said it's your backup horn anyway but as the owner of four King tubas I'm offended by this bulls##t rational and complacency on the part of the builder. Mabye the King Bao's will be built with tight valves. Good luck with yours. Ed

BRSousa wrote:If you are still concerned, go back to the shop and ask them if they will GIVE you a bottle of Hetman Classic Piston valve oil. They should since you spent 5000 bucks. Just my opinion.

NO, NO, NO! Hetmans will gum and crud up with the slide grease. Instead, take a conventional 1-oz bottle of valve oil and put a couple of drops of pharmaceutical grade mineral oil in it. I've used that on all sorts of instruments with worn valves, with great results and no gunk.

Just my experience.

But I'm with the above: there's no excuse for it. I have a 40+ year old Miraphone with tighter valves than that which have never been rebuilt and spent most of its life being abused in some school system somewhere. It grieves me that the QC on King valves has evidently descended to a new low. I'd return the horn, ask for my money back, and shop for something else.

Thanks so much for all the input. I am debating on returning the horn. I am not sure they have any others that are any better. I guess I could live with it, but for a new horn, this is unacceptable.

Rick

The proof's in the playing.

Thanks, Bloke. I am grateful for your input.
No, the valves on this horn are not bolted on. So, I am still working with the Conn folks to evaluate the best options.
Rick

My own opinion is that there's no acceptable excuse for blow-by, even if Conn/Selmer has an excuse. It's simply not acceptable that the most important mechanical item on the horn doesn't work properly. I gave them merry hell about my 52J when I got it since they had this problem AND they didn't come back up reliably. Shameful.

Can you get a Kanstul for the same price? While these late 2341s (the newest ones do unbolt) are very nice players, valves with play like that aren't going to last. Either have them re-build them (you know, since the damn thing being airtight is what makes it a tuba and not a serpent) or get your money back. I'd expect better of a Jinbao, let alone a long-time brand of quality like King.

YMMV,

J.c.S. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQIP53NEBIY" target="_blank)

Thanks, JC. I do hope they will replace it. But, I am not sure the next one will be any better. I will update as this plays out.
Rick