TubeNet

I have been tossing around the idea in the back of my head for a while to gather some of the resources of TubeNet together to commission a new tune from a preeminent composer. This would be a longer term project in the making.

What I am looking for right now is brainstorming. I am inexperienced in these things and would appreciate intellectual help in getting ideas going. We would need to come up with a list of composers and then narrow them down and then actually convince one to invest the time needed to do this right. When the piece is done I would hope it would have legs and actually get played regularly. I am thinking along the lines of a Vaughan Williams, Gregson, John Williams, Bozza level composer. I am thinking tuba or euphonium with both band and orchestra arrangements.

So to start things off, do any of you educated types know how to begin such an undertaking.

bloke wrote:Though you won't find an educated type behind the keyboard o' bloke...once you narrow your available choices down to a composer, I would discuss with them (just like anyone else who has a craft) their price, and then set up an account to collect and hold funds until payment would be due. It might be a good idea to wait to commission the piece until (perhaps?) at least half of the needed funds have been donated. PayPal might be convenient for some TubeNet donors...

Thanks for the ideas. I'll look into the composer name you dropped.

The financial aspect will come later as will the decisions on how to premier the composition. Right now I am hoping to get some insights from those who may have more experience in commissions. Wondering what type of process to go through in the early stages of choosing the composer and negotiating the terms with said composer.

Like I stated before my goals are as follows

1) Good music
2) Composition which is appealing to both audiences and musicians
3) Hopefully a well respected top shelf composer who would be willing to put the effort forth to write a new staple for the library

This may end up being a joint project with other non-TubeNet resources as needed.

Cool,
I would caution you in going after "tuba" composers and let's all collectively aim higher to composers who are in or will be in the Grout.
suggestions:
Adams
Ligeti
Rouse
Schwantner
Corigliano
Glass
Boulez
Babbit
Carter
Crumb
Aaron Jay Kernis
Reich
Zwilich
Part
Husa
Henze
As for getting these people involved, I would see if they have a website, email them and just begin the dialog. Ask about a price, tell them the plan, who will premire and in what venue. If not try contacting their publisher and asking them what is the best way to contact the composers.
I'd be more than happy to do some leg- work on this project Sean (so you can email me).
Just a start,
Bill Pritchard

bloke wrote:

Perhaps a competition?

translation: You may luck into getting some good stuff, but it will probably not be from any "name" composers.

I would agree with this one. Competitions are for composers looking to establish themselves. I was thinking more along the lines of trying for an internationally respected composer who is already established. This task would be made very difficult by the demands on the time of sought after talents.

Great idea, Sean! Count me in. $20 a pop with larger donations welcome? (Tax deductable, non-profit deal?)

Two anecdotes from the trombone world:

1. Trombone virtuoso George Krem commissioned a concerto with band accompaniment by Arthur Frackenpohl. (It is a good piece.) Frackenpohl is a quirky composer making it unlikely that this concerto will ever become part of the standard repertoire. (His music is fun to play, but deep it isn't.) The moral of the story might be to go after composers who are at least current or ahead of what is fashionable. (Then again, lesser known composers are likely to charge less money.)

2. Christian Lindberg has probably done more to increase the trombone repertoire than anybody else in the field. When he started approaching big-name composers about writing solo music for the trombone, most of them turned him down. He did not give up, and kept approaching the most respected composers around. He was very vocal in the quest to get the best composers possible to write for the trombone. Trombonists already had enough conservatory music available, and very few masterworks. If Stravinsky were still alive, Lindberg would have probably staked out the house of that monumental composer!

Funds permitting, it would be nice to have a truly great composer write something for tuba. There are good composers for brass instruments (who know how to exploit instrument-specific gimmicks and strengths) and then there are great composers who know how to construct music that works at more than one level of meaning and emotion. Anthony Plog probably falls into the first category (and I love playing his music). Instrumental soloists need more music that fits into the latter category. Technique is fun but emotional content is timeless.

By being on the cutting edge, one risks audience approval . . . but . . . wouldn't it be incredible to end up with a work by the next Brahms or Mahler, even if the work was not immediately appreciated?

My $.76 Canadian

ps Just to comment on the composer mentioned by Bloke: Stanley Friedman is an excellent writer. I've played some of his works for brass quintet and performed with him on numerous occasions. He would probably be priced within reach. His latest quintet won an ITG award (it figures with lots of flashy trumpet licks! I imagine someone like Zwillich would be priced 20X higher if that is the level of composer you end up pursuing.

Sounds like an interesting idea....

As part of the Extension Ensemble, I have commissioned a number of new works for brass quintet, and it has always been a great experience.

For this project, it seems that a good plan would be to:
Once there is a rough instrumentation/performance plan/recording plan and a list of preferred composers, contact a few of the possible composers (for some without a personal connection, you may need to contact them through their manager)- describe the project and inquire as to their interest, fee and their schedule. Many composers’ schedules are “bookedâ€

How about a composer who plays tuba?

I've been thinking about doing something like this for a while, but haven't quite put together a structure I like yet. This has been a goal of mine for many years.

Then again, if you can get a big name dude, do it! I'd love to hear something for tuba by John Corigliano or Elliot Goldenthal. Busy guys, but you never know.

I sure dig the idea.
I'll write one too and publish it myself.

www.DylanKing.net

the idea of finding a tuba playing composer has been brought up. why not james barnes at kansas (i think) he writes great stuff and it's very pleasing to audience and performer. check out his tuba concerto and his arrangement of yorksire ballad for patrick sherriden.

most of the arrangers in the local military bands are also decent composers. i know in our band we are always having new pieces written for roger behrend.

you may want to ask those guys first if they might be interested or if they know people or whoever they suggest. i imagine they had to be taught about composing from someone.

Oh, and, you haven't asked me.
farah

MomOfSampson wrote: Oh, and, you haven't asked me.
farah

Dangerous move Sean...

I suggest lots of flowers

TubeNet wrote:Right now I am hoping to get some insights from those who may have more experience in commissions. Wondering what type of process to go through in the early stages of choosing the composer and negotiating the terms with said composer.

Like I stated before my goals are as follows

1) Good music
2) Composition which is appealing to both audiences and musicians
3) Hopefully a well respected top shelf composer who would be willing to put the effort forth to write a new staple for the library

When Jay Rozen commissioned Virgil Thompson to compose what became Portrait of Jay Rozen, he started by writing the composer explaining his intentions. The composer wrote him back explaining his price. It was as simple as that. (The letter he wrote to Jay is in the book of Virgil Thompson's letters, by the way).

Star power costs money, of course.

If you want a composition that is accessible to the masses, then choose a composer with a demonstrated track record for such compositions. These days, that would lead me away from many academic composers and towards many Hollywood composers. Bruce Broughton may not have used up his ideas for tuba playing yet. Danny Elfman is another name that comes to mind. These guys get serious money for their time, of course, but the sort of visibility you want costs.

Jim Self or Tommy Johnson would be good people to help you make the connection.

I was one of many players who participated in the Solstice-Equinox composing commission. In that case, the composer managed the consortium, and set a limit on the number of people required to make it work. That project ended up with about 60 participants, each paying $60, to get four works that were designed to be played either separately or as a contiguous work. As I recall, it took some arm-twisting to get that many people to pony up cash.

All those in the consortium had performance rights, though I think the premiere occurred before the parts were sent out. Dave Zerkel would know much more--I think it was he who put it together (or was it Dennis AsKew?--sheesh my brain is worthless...).

If you want something that will be a major work, expect to pay for the composition of an orchestral accompaniment in addition to a piano reduction. That will add lots to the cost, but it ain't a concerto without a "concert" of accompanists.

I think you're starting in the right direction with a list of requirements. One requirement that I would add is that the work is not intended to be a show-off virtuosic piece, but rather something that can be attempted by players and more levels than just the top echelon. If it's good enough, top players will still play it, but it will get a lot more performance.

Rick "who would contribute" Denney

Rick Denney wrote:One requirement that I would add is that the work is not intended to be a show-off virtuosic piece, but rather something that can be attempted by players and more levels than just the top echelon. If it's good enough, top players will still play it, but it will get a lot more performance.

It doesn't have to be Bozza Concertino in difficulty, but then again I am hoping for something deeper than the Barnes Concerto. I would rather leave most of this part up to the composer herself.

TubeNet wrote:It doesn't have to be Bozza Concertino in difficulty, but then again I am hoping for something deeper than the Barnes Concerto. I would rather leave most of this part up to the composer herself.

My point was to avoid the notion that Deeper=More Difficult. Who wants to hear something that only Pat Sheridan can play, played by someone who ain't Pat Sheridan?

Achieving that balance will require a collaboration, with the composer working with performer(s) to achieve that balance.

Rick "not expecting to be able to play it in any case" Denney

Bravo Sean, and Bravo Bill.

Bill is EXACTLY right. I've got some experience in this, as does Andy Bove...

We should at all costs avoid the typical "tuba" composers, dont get too band-ish with it. If you want to really go for it -- do that. You want something that will be accepted in the academic, new music, classical and general public worlds, all at the same time, or as much as possible (each one is radically different and has its own set of rules) I would tend to shy away from the academic world -- as that world becomes so self serving and tends to propagate only itself.

Bill's list is almost exactly what I would do too... BUT, expect to PAY for it. Serious money as Andy was talking about. But, I feel that the tuba world desperately needs it though, DESPERATELY.

I would say that Ligeti would be a top choice. Rouse is fantastic as well, but his works tend to be SO difficult that few can actually play them. We want something that pros can play, but also a good student on a school recital. Glass, Adams, and Reich are ruthless minimalists, which are wonderful, but the work would present its own sense of difficulties (think Gorecki's "Aria")

I would add young composer Daniel Bernard Romain to this list. He's recently garnered a SERIOUS amount of media attention and his works and projects are getting a ton of acclaim. (he is a close associate of Glass') Some others that come to mind are Alvin Singleton, Alvin Lucier (another minimalist, but a great one) and perhaps Pauline Oliveros. Leo Leiberman (sp) is another hat I'd like to throw in the ring.

I always have enjoyed the music of David Amram -- his horn concerto and his sax concerto ("Ode to Lord Buckley") captures a spirit that relates well to the tuba. He is an accessible person, I believe as well.

Witold Lutoslawski is another possibility -- he composes in a heavy romantic style, that relates well to music that many of us love.

Keep in mind that with new music, you will make some friends, and you WILL undoubtedly make some enemies. But be cool with that. There is a happy medium and artistic expression and accessibility are not necessarily opposites. We probably dont want something too outside, but we also dont want something that is a redone Hindemith or VW by a composer that has something to prove.

The best way to get to the composers is through inside channels first, if possible. If you go that way, you will get priority. Sometimes a commission can take years upon years to get completed, so having a personal connection to the composer can help in this. I have constant contact with a new music production office here in NYC which has connections to many of these folks and spends thousands upon thousands on commissions every year. And above all, keep in mind that money will do the talking, so we should have that part of it down FIRST, before talking to the composers of that level.

Personally, and this is just my own interjection -- I would like to see it go in the way of an ethnic composer.
We need something with some "flavor" and some vibe to it.

Again, GREAT idea Sean. We need this.


peace

joe
NYC

Tubadork wrote:Cool,
I would caution you in going after "tuba" composers and let's all collectively aim higher to composers who are in or will be in the Grout.
suggestions:
Adams
Ligeti
Rouse
Schwantner
Corigliano
Glass
Boulez
Babbit
Carter
Crumb
Aaron Jay Kernis
Reich
Zwilich
Part
Husa
Henze
As for getting these people involved, I would see if they have a website, email them and just begin the dialog. Ask about a price, tell them the plan, who will premire and in what venue. If not try contacting their publisher and asking them what is the best way to contact the composers.
I'd be more than happy to do some leg- work on this project Sean (so you can email me).
Just a start,
Bill Pritchard

Another consideration. James Curnow.

ltboice wrote:Another consideration. James Curnow.

We've already got one by Curnow, right? (Concertino or something...)

Eric Ewazen has been steadily cranking out a lot of low brass works, how about him?

Oh, and Jim Curnow did write an excellent tuba solo with band accomp - "Concertpiece" (he mistakenly wrote trumpet on the solo part, a small oversight)

knuxie wrote:I could not agree less about discounting the 'tuba' composers from consideration. Last I checked this is still a TUBA forum. A Mike Forbes, John Stevens, etc. still aren't too bad, you know.

Of course they are not bad, they are wonderful in fact!! (John just wrote a MAJOR concerto, premiered by the CSO nonetheless)

However, the point being is to NOT keep it in the family per se. It is easy enough to have a very good, but relatively unknown "tuba family" composer write a piece. (That too should be done more than it is... )

But, I think Sean's original intent was to commission a work from a SERIOUS heavy hitter. Someone that will help us get some "street cred" outside of our little dixie-lovin tuba world.

I think what Sean is intending is a long term fundraising project, then a somewhat high dollar commission from a "preeminent composer" Something that can and will be performed by major orchestras, and/or internationally reknowned soloists, as well as at the local level. Something that will put us on the map -- to perhaps give us another standard outside of the TWO we have now.

We need things like this to help put us on the map and get us out of the back of the orchestra -- without having to ride a friggin unicycle or dance around or play on "family day" etc...

If I read it correctly, I think that is what Sean is intending.

Good dialogue... this is where it starts...!

Mudman wrote:Great idea, Sean! Count me in. $20 a pop with larger donations welcome? (Tax deductable, non-profit deal?)

Wasn't something like this done a few years ago on the TubaEuph list? Whatever became of the resulting work?

Chuck(G) wrote:

Mudman wrote:Great idea, Sean! Count me in. $20 a pop with larger donations welcome? (Tax deductable, non-profit deal?)

Wasn't something like this done a few years ago on the TubaEuph list? Whatever became of the resulting work?

That was the James Grant commissioning I believe