TubeNet

Hello fellow tubenetters!

I am currently a junior in college and have been thinking about whether to purchase a F tuba or a euphonium. I already have an Eb tuba, but after having a discussion with one of my mentors, this person said it would be in your best investment if you're able to play every key of tuba. With concerns of the euphonium, it used to be my primary instrument before I switched to tuba for college. I'd like to get back into playing the euph but I'd also like to learn/know F tuba. Which do you think I should invest in?

I say euphonium but keep your eyes open for cheap F's. With a 5 valve Eb you can get away with a 4 valve F. A euph will give you a small/medium/large setup.

darth2ba wrote:Hello fellow tubenetters!

I am currently a junior in college and have been thinking about whether to purchase a F tuba or a euphonium. I already have an Eb tuba, but after having a discussion with one of my mentors, this person said it would be in your best investment if you're able to play every key of tuba. With concerns of the euphonium, it used to be my primary instrument before I switched to tuba for college. I'd like to get back into playing the euph but I'd also like to learn/know F tuba. Which do you think I should invest in?

You have a 6/4 C and an Eb. If you go into a military band, you'll be playing a Bb sousaphone for money. If you go into an orchestra, they'll hire a sub to play euphonium parts. If you play jazz gigs, you can choose whatever you want, but a euph will compete with the trombone and it's too high to be a bass. If you go on the solo tuba recital circuit, you'll be playing tubas, unless you are going on the solo euphonium recital circuit, which is a different circuit with different repertoire and expectations. The solo tuba literature is written for bass tuba, primarily. The orchestral literature is divided between bass and contrabass, with only a couple of examples that could use tenor tuba, and those are accessible on F tuba if you're good enough to get the orchestra gig.

As a junior in college, I'm not really sure why you need the specific instruments you have, but I would think a 4/4 contrabass would be even higher on the list than an F, an both would be central to the literature while a euphonium is not.

Seems to me the literature makes the choice for you. If you are a performance major (which it seems you are), then being able to play the literature for the instrument seems to me the principle measure of what you learned. When you are no longer concerned about fulfilling such requirements, then buy what you want with no more justification than you have the money.

Rick "noting that much tuba lit was written with F tuba in mind, but not much was written with euphonium in mind" Denney

WARNING! HIGHLY OPINIONATED MATERIAL AHEAD!!

This is what I would advise on the ORDER of purchases:

Medium Large CC (or BBb)
Large F (or Eb)
Euph
Bass trombone
Small CC
Sell medium CC (BBb), and get a BAT
Small F

my 2¢

Thank you for your support.

To Mr. Denney: I've considered a 4/4 CC again. I had the opportunity to invest in the 6/4 York I own now (http://www.rickdenney.com/images/RWD_pl ... k_York.jpg" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank) which is why I don't have my 54J/euphonium anymore. I've discussed with fellow tubaists about my Eb, and they've said to keep it because it has the nimbleness of an F up-top yet has the bottom end of a 4/4. Some have also commented that if I have an Eb like what I have I don't have to have a 4/4 CC and to stick with the 2-horn set-up (though realistically I'd like to acquire a 4/4 again). I've been working on both military and orchestral rep and would be pleased with a career in either field.

To Doc: I would rent our school's 822F and 842 euphonium, but I know that other tuba students (particularly performance) would like to learn F, and there may be a euph player that needs to rent the 842.

darth2ba wrote:To Mr. Denney: I've considered a 4/4 CC again. I had the opportunity to invest in the 6/4 York I own now (http://www.rickdenney.com/images/RWD_pl ... k_York.jpg) which is why I don't have my 54J/euphonium anymore. I've discussed with fellow tubaists about my Eb, and they've said to keep it because it has the nimbleness of an F up-top yet has the bottom end of a 4/4. Some have also commented that if I have an Eb like what I have I don't have to have a 4/4 CC and to stick with the 2-horn set-up (though realistically I'd like to acquire a 4/4 again). I've been working on both military and orchestral rep and would be pleased with a career in either field.

To Doc: I would rent our school's 822F and 842 euphonium, but I know that other tuba students (particularly performance) would like to learn F, and there may be a euph player that needs to rent the 842.

That Rusk conversion you own is one of the best such conversions I've ever played (not that my opinion counts for much). Keep it if you can. Just recognize that it isn't that versatile. Refer to Tony's list.

Remember that the objective is to be able to play the literature appropriately and with extreme musicianship. That's what being a performance major is all about. There are some cases where the equipment will be dictated to you (that sousaphone comes to mind) and you won't have a choice, so you have to have mastery of any of those. But I don't think anyone outside of a German orchestra would put F in that category versus Eb.

You don't need a high-end euph like an 842 to learn euph. That was Doc's point. Get something used. There isn't much that a tuba player needs to do on a euphonium that I can't do on my crapped-out Besson New Standard for which I paid $400, or on something like a used Yamaha 321. Euphonium artists have other standards to attain, but for doubling we don't need a euphonium that costs six or eight grand. I think Mr. Clements has advocated for a 321 as the go-to euphonium for tuba doublers. Get something like that and learn on it, or even have it for the rare occasions when you need it. F tubas in that price category are rare and require luck (I paid $1000 for a Musica 4-valve F that wasn't actually all that bad until you got down to the low register--it was good enough for learning but those deals are not common).

Rick "beware of the equipment acquisition train, especially the First Class section" Denney

MISTER CLEMENTS?!? My Dad around here???

tclements wrote:MISTER CLEMENTS?!? My Dad around here???

That's what you get for becoming a respectable old fart.

Rick "or at least seeming to" Denney

Oy!!

I agree whole-heartedly with Tony Clements' list. If I had the money (as the old saying goes, "wish in one hand and spit in the other and see which one fills up 1st") I'd invest in other horns that would better assist me with fulfilling different genres/styles (F and 4/4 CC at this moment in time). With the euphonium's concerned, I don't need to re-learn the instrument (I've played euphonium in our tuba/euph ensemble the past 2 years). I agree that I don't need a high-end euphonium to play on, but owning a large-bore euphonium would be my personal preference.

To Tony: I apologize for calling you Mr. Clements. I'll be sure to not make the same mistake.

Rick Denney wrote:
... but a euph will compete with the trombone and it's too high to be a bass.Denney

What about that little JinBao "junior tuba"? Definitely not a bass tuba, but is it genuinely too high to be a "bass"? Certainly it will play ably in the same range as a (single-valve) bass trombone? My goofy oval euph gets well into the bass range without sounding terrible (I think), and I'd guess that the "junior tuba" would be noticeably better. Or not?

(I ask because I'm thinking that at some point in the future I might either try to pick up an Eb or that little "junior". The junior would be attractive because it could play in the euph range easily, but I'd want something that could at least sound reasonable in the "bass" range.)

I can't see you really need an F, if you have an Eb - so would go for the euphonium as priority.

However why not get both? You could get one of the Jinbao 1150 euphonium which only cost a little and are really superb players for any money (and as you are not in my territory, don't think I am not trying to sell to you! ) and then have enough left over to get a small F.

As you already have Eb, if you get an F, I would suggest go for a small one for tonal contrast.

Bass Trombone

To Neptune: I totally agree with tonal contrast. If I were to invest in a F I'd go for a 4/4 size, something like a MW 2182, Kanstul (even though it's considered 3/4) or Miraphone Firebird (yellow brass...personal preference). If I were to stay with Eb fingerings but a 4/4 size I'd go with the Miraphone Star Lite. For euphoniums I'd go for either Willson, Yamaha or Miraphone Ambassador.

To ArnoldGottlieb: I've considered picking up bass-bone again. I played bass-bone in my high school's jazz band, orchestra and a non-profit youth orchestra. I haven't been in the loop of the trombone world, but I really enjoyed playing on the high school's Getzen 1052FD.

You might want to consider a small CC (Mira 184 sized) use as a main axe in smaller sized ensembles like a quintet.
I was able to get by in an orchestra with only an Eb for years.

A euphonium is only really useful in a band situation, and then, only as a euphonium.
Not many paying gigs.

Bass trombone.
Get bigband gigs.

I have been contemplating the idea of going to a 3-horn set-up (BAT CC, 4/4 CC and a small F) because (like Doc said) there's good reason to use each horn for daily use. While I really enjoy my Eb, in the future (when I have $) I'm probably going to acquire a F and 4/4 CC and only use the Eb for brass band use (if I'm in one). My friend has a Mirafone 186 CC for sale and if I had the $$ I'd buy that horn. After thinking about everyone's words of wisdom, I'm probably not going to get a euph simply because there's not too many gigs (hence why I switched to tuba for college because there's more playing opportunities) and would get a bass-bone instead.

The bass trombone is an important double for musicals, and the big band gigs are a great way to meet people. If I were trying to make a living as mainly a tuba player, I'd be practicing bass trombone at least half of the time.
Good Luck
Peace.
ASG

No disrespect intended to anyone that has given you advice thus far, but I would talk to your teacher about this and do what they suggest. As a performer/teacher I have my own very strong opinion about your situation, however - I have never heard you play, don't know where you are in your development, and I don't know what type of work ethic you have. There are many factors that go into this decision - some physical, some practical, some financial, and some psychological. (Possibly others, as well.) Your teacher is the person that should know you best and would be able to give you solid advice. That is why you chose to study with them, I hope.

Good luck with your quest!

Mike Milnarik

I haven't been able to discuss this yet with my teacher (this is on the top of my list when I see him). I've been thinking about the small F-tuba (or smaller Eb), euph or bass-bone thing off/on for a while. I can't afford a horn at this given moment in time but I thought I'd seek advise/guidance on the subject.