TubeNet

Hi all,

Recommendations for books/CDs etc. that would be good for a tubist who wants to work on learning to create bass lines? A play along book of some kind would be ideal.
Thanks for any suggestions,
Matt

This is a book I use with intermediate bass guitar students:

http://www.amazon.com/Building-Walking- ... 0793542049" target="_blank" target="_blank

"Building Walking Bass Lines" by Ed Friedland

It is very clear and systematic. It comes with a play along CD.

Go with building walking bass lines it is a great fundamental book for any one learning how to play

There was a 10 part low-cost PDF lesson book, can't find it now but I think I posted it somewhere in Tubenet. Here is a very simple version, maybe by the same author.

Hi!
Get some "Jamey Abersold" tapes, records or CD's! There are corresponding books with each record! This is how most of the good Jazzers honed their skills on ALL the Jazz Ensemble instruments. The Rythmn section is split into stereo, so Bass, Guitar, and Drums can play with the recordings!
Ron Carter and other great Bassists are available. The theory is what you need! You may never be able to duplicate the agility of the Upright Bass, but will learn much in your attempt!
Al

"- theoretical knowledge ... knowledge which is as quickly mentally accessible as reciting the alphabet or counting numbers
- aural vocabulary comprehension...which can be processed and understood as quickly as the vocalized language of the country of one's birth
- good taste ... acquired from extensively listening to others who have "good taste" creating bass lines (live performances/recordings)
- idiomatic knowledge ... which types of rhythmic figures and intervals are commonly associated with which types of music

Even more important that the elements listed above is the MOTIVATION to sacrifice the TIME to acquire all of this immediately-accessible knowledge and these skills."

That last line could answer any question posed

Ed's book does break it down nicely and provides a nice framework to work with. Obviously you need to practice and listen to stuff ...

Not claiming I have great basslines- and it depends on style youre working on. But for ear players, if you know the melody and you are looking at chord symbols you should do fine.
Take whatever tune you are doing and practice the melody till it works. The basslines should present themselves. Im sure books help as well- so appreciate the other reccomendations.

yeah- it is kind of ironic to try to learn improv from a book.

Monty wrote:yeah- it is kind of ironic to try to learn improv from a book.

Yeah - it's not as if anyone else has actually figured out any techniques here, or has any knowledge worth sharing.

Book learning is for wusses who can't figure it out on their own.

I recommend the Nike approach: "Just Do It" (this ancient Greek method was re-invented and perfected by Prof. Harold Hill)

sloan wrote: I recommend the Nike approach: "Just Do It" (this ancient Greek method was re-invented and perfected by Prof. Harold Hill)

This is inconsistent advice. The Nike approach is "Just Do It". The Hill method is "Just Think It".

I am a strong proponent of the Hill method. However, I find that in following it to the letter I not only need to think my practicing but also think my performances. But then I can think my instrument as well -- and this significantly reduces the cost of the instruments.

sloan wrote:

Monty wrote:yeah- it is kind of ironic to try to learn improv from a book.

Yeah - it's not as if anyone else has actually figured out any techniques here, or has any knowledge worth sharing.

Book learning is for wusses who can't figure it out on their own.

I recommend the Nike approach: "Just Do It" (this ancient Greek method was re-invented and perfected by Prof. Harold Hill)

OP, please interpret my original post sans sarcasm or negative comparison- thats not the spirit intended.

Theory and analysis are a big help, especially chord structures, modes, cadences and inversions. Don't let people tell you it isn't. While it is not strictly necessary for creating bass lines on any bass instrument in performance, it allows you to quickly identify the patterns and (just as importantly) communicate those things to others when necessary. In a working band or a studio situation, it can save a ton of time.

I am all for hitting a book or two as a starter, but it should end there. Once you have a fundamental basis it is time to outgrow the book and start paving new road. Listening to tons of music in that style will probably do more for your learning than anything else, but having the theory down makes the listening that much more productive and efficient.

Get your bass or tuba out with the recordings. Play along if you can. Imitate at first and then branch out and improvise your own bass lines. Once you get there you will be full of confidence and will be able to hit any stage.

This thread is all about the NOTES. Ugh! Toooooo much thinking!!

As a bassline player, your job is to make the girls dance. End of story. Naturally, right notes are needed to keep things cohesive, but theory and analyzation never got anyone...

If you are working as the bass instrument, chances are good that you are probably playing *some* sort of festive, fun music in a fun, festive environment. People don't want to come to a fun show to hear musical math. The girls want to dance and the guys want to watch the girls dance. That's how music works. (don't let this 'art' stuff fool you!! )

If you want to study, then study the Meters. Should be required study for every music major.

Groove first, notes second. Sure learn the theory, but look at it from a direction of why, rather than how.

tubajoe wrote:This thread is all about the NOTES. Ugh! Toooooo much thinking!!

As a bassline player, your job is to make the girls dance. End of story. Naturally, right notes are needed to keep things cohesive, but theory and analyzation never got anyone...

If you are working as the bass instrument, chances are good that you are probably playing *some* sort of festive, fun music in a fun, festive environment. People don't want to come to a fun show to hear musical math. The girls want to dance and the guys want to watch the girls dance. That's how music works. (don't let this 'art' stuff fool you!! )

If you want to study, then study the Meters. Should be required study for every music major.

Groove first, notes second. Sure learn the theory, but look at it from a direction of why, rather than how.

I am not certain how to react to your post. Don't you realize that posts on TubeNet are not meant to be profound?! You know: silver vs. lacquer rotary vs. piston Surely you know this. NOW YOU'VE DONE IT! You have let the great secret out of the bag. "If you are working as the bass instrument, chances are good that you are probably playing *some* sort of festive, fun music in a fun, festive environment." Tuba players who are serious are meant to spend most of their time and effort practicing orchestral exerpts and tuba concertos.

TubeNetters: Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. LOL

Knowledge of music theory is a huge barrier. If you can't look at a g-7 and quickly realize that your best (non-root) choices are Bb, D, and occasionally F, you aren't going to be able to effectively create good sounding lines.

I teach jazz bass lessons at a major university and get a wide variety of players with a wide variety of experience. Those who can't quickly identify chord tones are very much lost until they can. Those that can struggle for a while with "plain" sounding lines until they figure out the correct proportions of starting a measure on a non-root and/or good strategies for bridging between chords. They generally "get it" when they listen a great deal to great players and "cop their style."

Books? Nah.

Groove first, notes second? HELL no. There's nothing worse than playing a combo gig with a bass player that can't cover the changes and sounds lost.

Lol.

Of course you should not abandon the harmonic responsibilities. Approach the groove with the same intensity and priority that you approach the harmony. and always make it sound fun

Meh. A bass player who can't handle the changes usually won't be invited back. One who can't groove probably won't either. Desperation and only one bass player available can change it all, though.

A bass player who has no time, but can write out a g-7 chord would also not be invited back to a gig. I think a band would rather have a bass player who can play one note in time than someone who just knows math and theoretical things. Seeing how most bass gigs nowadays arent jazz combo gigs, I think playing the same note for more than one quarter note is pretty common. Many people who pick up a bass to learn basslines just copy what they hear on the radio, their favorite music, or something they thought was cool. I feel as though the harmonic understanding of whats going on comes with the territory (usually after the shapes on the neck are made, where the hand ends up moving to) and then one can discern harmony. I know Jaco couldn't read music until after he was pretty well known at least in all of Florida.

Putting these on the tuba is a whole different story though. With the bass, there are patterns and a visual aide (fingerboard, frets). Tuba is kind like a no mans land. My advice would be to get a cheap $80 electric bass off ebay and figure out some music you enjoy, and then apply them to tuba. Worst case scenario is that you would eventually be able to picture the entire bass neck in your head while playing the tuba (sarcasm). All the sudden, visualizing roots, fifths, minor thirds, octaves, etc all becomes pretty clear.

Many of the well known bass players out there today (Victor Wooten, etc) started with what they heard, copied it, and built upon that from there. If they started out with how-to books, instructional videos, and the "reading music is the only way to play music" mentality, they would not sound the same as they do now. Groove is everything. Where do you think the people who write these books or make these videos learned it from?

bloke wrote:It is possible to put down a good groove without much regard for the changes...

This.

I repeat (if OP is still listening) it isnt a dichotomy between knowing harmony or not, or having feel vs a mental understanding. Most people have more of one or another- and I suspect by the wording of the question that harmony isnt his weakness.
If you have good time you have pocket- and that goes a long way. I learned my horn from zero- farting non notes in time on parades etc. Never lost a gig over it. Never got good at harmony- but learned the material from the top line of anything I played and eventually began to hear the song more beginning to end- rather than chord to chord. Your bassline should be able to be pulled out of the tune and be a tune in and of itself. Thats why I think books are a great adjunct- but ultimately arent going to directly contribute to playing a good show on bass. I also dont see that picking up a bass guitar will be much more than an interesting exercise- you are playing tuba as bass- so do the thing you are trying to get good at- bad basslines show the way to better basslines. If you are looking for shortcuts- melody is your friend-
not harmony- harmony is deep -melody is quick- if you can do both- you are deep and quick- and the girls love that indeed.