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Does anyone have a picture of Mr. Phillips' prewar Conn?

I am also very curious about the model, year, and set up of Mr. Phillips' Conn tuba and would love to see a good clear picture of it!

The model designations on the Conn Loyalist list the 48J and the 84J as Symphony tubas in CC. Although, the 48J is only shown as a recording model. I own a Conn "Donatelli" that I believe to be one of these models. I'm wondering if this was the model that Mr. Phillips used? It seemed to be very popular with symphony musicians in the 1920's. Also, I'm wondering what the bore sizes of these different models were? Was the 84J more of a Orch Grand and the 48J, smaller?
And since August Helleberg is credited with the design of the 48J, when did the Donatelli designation come into play?

Frank "who wishes Conn and Martin kept their records from being destroyed" Ortega

Frank, Mr. Phillips tuba was none of the model numbers above. At the bottom of this page http://www.steelcityambassadors.org/tubachristmas.html is a picture of Mr. Phillips holding his tuba. You can easily see it isn't your Donatelli.

I have played a Rudy Meinl copy of the 48J, which was built for Helleberg but never used or endorsed by him I understand. It is considerably larger than Mr. Phillips' horn.

I can't answer your question with the model number of his tuba, but it isn't "one of the above."

I saw that horn a couple of times. It was similar to a 2J or 3J. It was silver, and it sounded like the metal was thin and very resonant. I don't know what model it was (or even if it fit within the model designations) but it was a very effective solo horn, even though it was a double C. I wonder who owns it now, and I hope it is being played.

My knowledge is only secondhand and likely to be wrong, but my understanding is that his horn did not have a model number, but that the later models of 2J and 3J CC tubas were patterned after his. Not necessarily exact copies.

Very interesting point! I think the answer is hiding between the lines. If you read the Conn Loyalist descriptions you can find hints in their multiple names and the descriptions that follow each.
Under the 2J/3J New Wonder model, they only describe Eb and BBb models. But, the BBb 4 valve designations are 46J and 47J. The CC New Wonder, which resembles the Donatelli, is designated as a 48J. With a recording bell, it's also called a Wonderphone. I believe that perhaps Mr. Phillips' horn was probably a special order New Wonder in CC, using the smaller bore Eb valves. The 48J is similar, but having more of the .730 Monster size bore in most cases. The Orchestra Grands had the .770 or larger bores of the 34j and 36J. It takes abit of unraveling, but I think the basic model sizes were Standard, Monster, Symphony, and Symphony Grand. This also explains why the 2J CC made later and modeled after the Phillips Conn kept the same designation as the old Eb/Bb New Wonder Model.

Any thoughts?

Frank

Tom Coffey wrote:I saw that horn a couple of times. It was similar to a 2J or 3J. It was silver, and it sounded like the metal was thin and very resonant. I don't know what model it was (or even if it fit within the model designations) but it was a very effective solo horn, even though it was a double C. I wonder who owns it now, and I hope it is being played.

I believe it was superficially similar to the 2&3J but they were different in substantial ways.

No definitive awnswers here but at the first international tuba symposium in 73' Abe Torchinsky said that Mr Bell had asked him to sell that Conn to Harvey. that same year in a lesson Herb Wekselblatt told me that Helleburg had given Harvey another one just like it as a gift. Again that same year four of us from the West Point Band went down to Princeton to play in a sextet with Harvey. I played 2nd and got to sit right next to him. His Conn had a bigger bell than the 2J(made by Olds?), or the 3J.He also played a solo, I'm remembering Carioca but could be wrong but what amazed me was that he sat in with the Princeton band which only had one regular tuba player who was a brother of one of the West Point guys and the reason we got to go down and do it. Harvey sounded like a section of tubas on the loud stuff and his technique was perfect. I don't have a clue about the whereabouts of the Conn(s) but like with Jake and the York, that sound was 95% the guy. Everyone who I know who has played that Conn seems to be shocked at how well he was able to play it.A true hall of famer. Respectfully, Ed

That old Conn was shined up and on display at the funeral home during the visitation. Last I saw it, it was in the Phillips' living room near the piano. I don't think that the family will ever give this horn up and I would not blame them!

Brian and I were at Harvey's home one day or so about 10 or 12 years ago. I asked Harvey if his horn was a 2 or 3 J and his answer was:

It is neither; it was made before they had those designations.

You need not wonder where the horn is nor if you will ever stumble upon it; it will be in the livingroom, ususally under the piano, with a couple of other horns. There is a lot of speculation about this being a special horn but, in reality, this was a special tuba player. It's not the horn.

Bill has it right about the lack of model designation. I never thought of the metal being particularly thin. I think there were 2 or 3 of this "model" made. I did a bit of work on it when I was studying with Harvey at NEC in 70-71. It is, or at least was, clear lacquered, not silver plated. I can't recall the exact bore size but think it was about .659. The "new" 2J which came out in 71 had a slightly larger bore. Harvey had black tape all around the bottom bow and elsewhere and suspected that it had a few leaks. I took all the tape off and cleaned it up. As I recall there was a very slight leak which I repaired. It did need the valves realigned which I did and it played quite a bit better. Harvey had had the valves plated a few years earlier - I recall it being done by Giardinelli.

Harvey had a couple 2J prototypes and Dave Gannet and I each used one. They were not as good as the original from which they were patterned but were still nice horns. They were to be returned to Conn. He also had one which had belonged to Helleberg. It was a slightly smaller bore than the others with a smaller, detachable bell and was matte gold finished. It did not play, or sound, as nice as Harvey's horn. Harvey always used a stock Conn 2 mp. I was using a Conn 7B Helleberg and found it worked very well.

Harvey could make any horn sound good - he was an extraordinary player.

Most people probably would not like his horn as one had to adapt to it a bit to get the best out of it. Most would say it was "stuffy" As Harvey always said, he liked a bit of "subtle resistance". Once you get used to it you can get a lot of sound from it. It would never sound like Jake's York but with a player like Harvey it could lay down a solid foundation for any ensemble. It would probably be rather like comparing a Conn 5J to a Holton 345.

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It looks like Hirsbrunner-something.