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If you own a piston valve tuba, do you like the piston valves on your particular tuba? (ie. quick enough, don't stick, action, etc.) If so, what make and model tuba do you own that has these great piston valves?

Mike Milnarik

Pre 1915 H. N. White medium King Eb- excellent, excellent valves and decent slides.
1895 Conn Eb- rebuilt valves with very little time on them; still a little squishy. I think I need to break them in.

Geez, what else do I have around here....
Fullerton Olds marching trombone- ok 2nd and 3rd valves, not terrible but far from good 1st valve. Oh well.
Amati piston euphonium (331?)- I've not played this in a while but the valves have always been ok.
Conn 56J (Army horn)- lousy valves that just add to the general dis-enjoyment of playing the horn. Spit actually seems to work the best on them.
Eb valved bass with .562 valves- we'll see when they get here (horn will take a bit of time to put together)!

I've not really owned a tuba much more than 100 years old. One was kinda lousy but the others were/are (see above) fine. The most fantastically wonderful piston valves I've ever played were on a new Besson 3 valve baritone at Midwest. I've never played a horn with such quick valves!

Yes i do like the piston valves on my tubas, both the Conn and Kanstul have great valves; smooth and comfortable. I used to have a top action Yamaha (321), it had very sticky pistons.

My valves are old and leaky, but I bought the horn with the expectation of having a valve job within a year. I plan to get it done in the next month or so. I've been getting by with using extremely heavy valve oil with a bit of light slide oil mixed in. It works for a while, but starts to decline in performance after an hour or two. It's time for a more permanent solution.

All in all, I prefer rotary valves, but on large Eb's they're as rare as hen's teeth.

In short yes I do like the valves on my piston tubas but I am open to rotary after a recent eBay win. I had previously dismissed rotary valves as being only for French horns or similar small instruments but now I have a better understanding of the benefits of rotary valves I am willing to have two in the arsenal but 30 years of habit and comfort would prevent me from moving away from pistons.

averagejoe wrote:Yes i do like the piston valves on my tubas, both the Conn and Kanstul have great valves; smooth and comfortable. I used to have a top action Yamaha (321), it had very sticky pistons.

Yes... Yamaha tends to have too tight a tolerance on their pistons. Bad move for horns sold to schools.

There is often a 'fine line' between good-working valves and worn-out valves.

I've found that the least forgiving valves with respect to wear are the King valves. The ports have very little surface area between them and seem more prone to leak. There was a discussion in another thread about the new Kings having loose valves right 'out of the box'. Someone mentioned that King excused the problem by saying they needed to be that way for the school market.

All that being said... I like pistons over rotors but the pistons require a lot more care in both the set-up and the maintenance. Rotors seem to play forever with little or no attention while pistons constantly cause trouble... mainly due to dirt and grit. Rotors are more forgiving but I still like my pistons.

bloke wrote:

pauvog1 wrote:Yes, I have a Kalison DS.

' same valvesets as those used by Gronitz.

Just as an aside. . . the monel piston valves on my former Kalison 2000 were probably the best valves I've ever played on. Better, even, than the valves on the Gronitz I later owned. (that particular Kalison had been worked over by Dan Oberloh before I bought it, so that might explain the difference). Either way, nice hand position and relatively short throw - the Kalison 2000 also had springs that got larger on the bottom and locked into the bottom valve caps, so they were always centered.

--T. J. "memories of tubas long gone" Ricer

I have a Nirschl and do have some stickiness on the first valve.

In the past, I have found that I need to use as little grease (or spacefiller) as possible on the first valve and other slides. Reason being the grease works its way down into the valve and gums it up.

But I still prefer the sound from a piston horn over a rotary.

I liked the valves on my old Miraphone 1291. Tight, slick, and never a single problem. I also liked that they were sort of short-action as well. Really liked them a lot.

I never particularly liked MW valves, the spacing is okay for me, but they are just super tall and have a long throw to me...but, maybe that's just a matter of me being more of a rotary guy?

bloke wrote:The vast majority of sticking with front-action pistons is with the first valve.

- It collects the most sludge from the mouthpipe.
- It is under the most stress, as the mouthpipe (which can act as a "lever") is soldered directly into the first valve casing.

bloke "Tubas should always be picked up by their outer body parts."

+1

My 1941 6/4 BBb recording bell Holton has 3 front action Short Stroke pistons which are at least as fast as the rotary valves I've played on my Miraphones and Rudy Meinl. These pistons are also very quiet. I use the strongest springs I can find (I still have very strong hands due to having milked cows for many years in my youth - I like the snappy feel these springs impart.)

I sold off all the large piston tubas I had; now I play strictly rotaries on the CC's. I still have 2 piston F's (both Yamahas), but I have to keep the pistons really clean and oiled regularly, like 2-3 times a week.

The York Master (Boehm and Meinl--now Nirschl) valves were rebuilt by Waybe Tanabe. He probably used Dave Secrist, like everyone else. They are perfect.

The Holton valves used to be a bit sticky and sloppy. They have been redone in Williston, with Dave Secrist doing the plating and fitting. When I keep the green slime out of the instrument, they are perfect. Otherwise, the first valve let's me know that I'm being lazy about keeping things clean.

The Yamaha 621 has very good valves, but I had to have them lapped to make them reliably unsticky playing outdoors in Texas heat.

The rotary valves on my Miraphone are worn and loud (not the linkages). The rotary valves on my B&S are fine.

Rick "who applies oil to rotaries about once for every fourth or fifth time of applying oil to pistons" Denney

Both or my horns have great valves. I have a Kanstul 66T and a 1912 Martin Monster Eb. If I had to choose, I'd choose the Kanstul, but after 100 years you'd be a little slow and wobbly too..

I have a Boosey & Hawkes Imperial Eb fromthe 70's which has very nice valves.

Also my Pan American Helicon has nice valves. They were replated by Anderson and lapped in by Harv Hartman, like butta....

ken k

I like piston valves because I can work on them myself.

My new-to-me HB21 (about 10 years old) has the best piston valves on which I've ever played.

My F tuba, a used MW 45slp that's about 8 years old, has -good- piston valves, but not as smooth as my C tuba's valves. I love the way the Petrushka F felt to me, but I couldn't afford one at the time of my F tuba upgrade.

I am not a huge fan of the mw big valves, but mine are pretty good. The gronitz/kalison/hb valves are my preference.

my Conn 5j pistons are really smooth and quiet, had them replated in pre Tubenet days so I have no Idea who actually did the work. Harry Siverly in Fresno did the dent work and "sent the valves out"... Strangely enough, the best I have ever seen are on my Weril Euph, which is ex-middle school via eBay... go figure!!

PS forgot to add...Blue Juice may be responsible LB

The valves on my 1940 King Eb are worn. I find that adding 20 drops of 30 weight automotive oil to a bottle of ultra pure lamp oil gets 'em working their best.
I oil up every time I play the horn.