TubeNet

Through this link you can connect to the US Navy Band's blog. Scroll down a little, and you will see a collection of personal memories of band member's experiences of 9/11, one of which is mine.

I will never forget...


Karl "thinking of the families" H.

http://usnavyband.blogspot.com/" target="_blank" target="_blank

If one believes what the Bible says about forgiveness (Luke 12:10, Luke 23:34, Acts 8:22, James 5:15, and many other scriptures), and a second resurrection (Rev 20:11), one must also understand that all will be given a chance to repent, including the Satan driven murderers who committed terrorism against our people on that terrible day ten years ago.

The terrorists' last moment in those planes praising a false god will to them be an instantaneous resurrection to 1,000+ years from now at the White Throne Judgement, where they will meet the Family of God (the REAL Ever Living One) and be taught that what they believed was evil and against God's true Commandments. They will then be judged by their repentance and their works in that age. It is the same for all who die and are not baptized into the true Jesus Christ of the Bible while in the flesh on earth.

When they are resurrected they will be given a chance to seek forgiveness. If they do not, they will be destroyed permanantly. God is just in all of His ways.

Maybe it's time for me to re-read "When Bad Things Happen To Good People", 'cause I've got some unresolved anger myself...

Karl "who wishes all who need forgiveness would ask for it" H.

Bloke - you're sort of on track. As Jews, with the High Holy Days approaching, no less, we (Reform) believe, in a nutshell, that we cannot turn to G-d to seek forgiveness without having first sought forgiveness from those we've wronged, AND having forgiven those who we believe have wronged us/caused us harm, regardless of whether they've sought our forgiveness. (I recently came across an interesting quote from the Belzer Rebbe that's pertinent- let me know if you're interested.)

With regard to 9/11, I can only release. I cannot begin to understand the mindset that causes someone to inflict harm upon others in the name of righteousness, but it is, of course, usually, "(we) are right, and (our G-d) is the only true, right, mighty (G-d), and (he) told (us) that (we) need to kill (you) because (you) don't believe the right way in the right (G-d), not, at least, our (G-d), the One and Only (G-d) who thinks (because we KNOW what our G-d is THINKING at any given moment, despite the flaw in the logic that if the entity is, in fact, G-d, and is all-mighty-all-knowing-and-created-everything that we, as humans, couldn't possibly begin to KNOW the mind of G-d; therefore, if we can KNOW what our G-d is thinking, he's either not G-d or we are...you know, that fly in the ointment), you should die; therefore, (we) will kill all of (you) until (you) believe the right way and see that (we) are right and (you) are wrong." (Wherever you see (...) in the fore-expressed rant, insert whichever group you'd like. It pretty much works all the way around.)

I happen to have the misfortune of having a number of ancestors who went to the "Holy" land in the name of "restoring" (read: annihilate those who don't agree with our way of thinking) it to its "rightful" caretakers. I'm sure each of them spilled plenty of Muslim blood. I have another ancestor who is known primarily for first fighting on behalf of a Muslim army, then being hired for fighting them back. I'm sure his hands were plenty covered in blood.

But where I stand back on 9/11, and where I think most people should is that, as Americans, it affects us only generically. Certainly, we can take it as a great assault on the principles of Freedom. But probably 95% (?) of the population wasn't directly affected; they didn't know anyone who was lost on that day. They don't know anyone who knows anyone who was lost on that day. Their personal experience exceeds not a whit beyond what they've seen on the evening news.

I watched in horror, as did most all of us, on that horrible morning. Yet it seemed so distant, so surreal. Until 1:08 pm that afternoon, when I learned a dear friend's brother was on Flight 77. He was on his way to his honeymoon. Between him and his wife, all that was identified was a single tooth.

But perhaps the greatest insult to Freedom in this case was that this man's father had served his country well. He was a 28-yr-old colonel who landed on Utah Beach. (He treated it as though this was nothing, as he was in the second wave and gave all credit to the sacrifices of the first.) He served in Korea, and he served, rather highly up, in Viet Nam. This was a man who gave so much for our country and lost his son in such a heinous manner.

In that regard, I cannot begin to believe I can comprehend what their family endured and continues to endure. Every year, knowing that, once again, the video of their loved ones' demise will be broadcast again. And again. And again and again and again and...

I also cannot know what eternity will hold for those responsible. It's not for me to decide. Having died ever so briefly once, I can only say that I think there's so much more than we can humanly comprehend and it's a fool's errand to believe we might.

People are capable of such extremely despicable acts, usually driven by the belief they are right, which is usually driven by the belief that their G-d deems it so. Small minds can believe awfully big things.

Here is an interesting documentary about forgiveness. If you have Netflix I think you can "watch it now" for free. But beware, it is not for the weak of stomach.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forgiving_Dr._Mengele

Here is a woman who clearly went through hell and it has been a part of her everyday life ever since. She chose to forgive as a way of freeing herself from the notion that tragic events have to define her identity as a human being. She got a lot of resistance from others who had gone through similar events but stuck with it. But when the tables are turned she finds it's not so easy to seek forgiveness. Humans are funny creatures.

As someone who used to work in south tower and lost four of my friends that day, there is something to be said for forgiving as a means to save your own soul. You have to get on with things or those damn planes will be hitting you every day for the rest of your life.

I have spent most of my time in the intervening years trying to understand what would drive any person to the point of committing such a crime. It's easy to put things down to good vs. evil, but I just cannot justify in my mind that these 19 guys were born with hatred in their hearts. Something brought them to that place. I don't know. I have not figured it out and I am not sure I ever will, but I will be damned if I do not try.

Honestly, you seem like a rational man, but this thing about evil keeps coming up as though it's a distinct phenomenon that accounts for the actions of others. Like maybe someone gets fed up with everything and says "OK, that's it - from now on, I'm going to do evil!"

The dictionary is kind of with you on this, inasmuch as it uses other words like "wicked" in the definition, whose definitions in turn mention "evil" - in other words, it's an irreducible concept, a fundamental building block of the way we see the world.

Or something we use to substitute for really having to see the world. Like: why would people do something like that - well, they're just evil.

You can understand why someone would smack you in the nose, or skate on a debt, but you can't understand murder, rape, child molestation, etc. Neither can I, but just because it lies outside of understanding I have gained through experience, does not mean that it is outside of the rules that govern the universe, so to speak, the same kind of chain of causes and effects that might some day lead someone to smack me in the nose in my much better ordered corner of the universe.

I don't mean to suggest any kind of tolerance, just a rational view of the situation that will allow us to be effective in response. I think that's our greatest advantage in this world, the ability to think clearly and rationally, and I'm sometimes sorry to see how little we seem to value it.