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Frustrated. I figured I'd go back and learn to play CC, a box I never checked. In fact, a teacher who was pushing me to do it when I was an immature kid is part of the reason I quit playing tuba at all. Now I've gotten a little CC, for the challenge and to exorcise that demon. I'm very tired of sounding like a 6th grader, trying to figure out which "buttons to mash."

I keep having to beat back the temptation to put it on eBay and be a happy single-key tuba player.

Maybe posting this will keep me at it for another few days, anyway.

It's not worth it. If you like BBb fingerings, and you're playing in a community band, go for it! I've played just about everything out there, and for my personal instrument after all these 35+ years after starting playing tuba (souzy) as a high school freshman in marching band, I have BBb. And that's even after switching from trumpet, with "written middle C = open valves" fingerings.

OTOH, there are two times, but only two, when I wish I had a CC tuba: when playing with a group that is doing a lot of sharp keys, and when I'm playing a pickup gig with no written music. After all these years, I still tend to think in improvisational terms with the "CC=open valves" mentality, but I get over it quickly.

Welcome back to low brass! I was out of it for @ 20 years between the end of grad school and coming back to it a few years ago. It's the best thing I ever did, musically, and that's in spite of having paying gigs on other instruments.

It depends on the instrument.... if you have a great playing and sounding CC, it is definitely worth it. All this debate about which keyed tuba to play really comes down to this: Does this instrument make a sound that I love? If yes, then you are there. If not, you better try something else.

2¢

What did you get?

For ME- I can understand small C's over small Bb's, but the bigger the horn gets the more I am likely (generally) to prefer a Bb.

tclements wrote: if you have a great playing and sounding CC, it is definitely worth it. All this debate about which keyed tuba to play really comes down to this: Does this instrument make a sound that I love? If yes, then you are there. If not, you better try something else.

+1

Bob Kolada wrote:What did you get?

Oh, it's nothing interesting. I got a previously owned example of the much-despised Jinbao 3/4 CC, M&M branded.

The previous owner had 3" taken out of the first valve loop. I had a bit taken out of #2, and had a leak fixed and a brace added. I'm using a Blokepiece Solo #1 with it. With these modifications a little attentive lipping, and a good pull on #1 to bring F below the staff down, it can be played in tune.

And it sounds amazingly rich, I must say. Sounds bigger than it is, especially now the leaky solder joint is fixed.

I only got it to learn to play with the CC fingerings, not because I expected it to be a great instrument. In view of this intention, and for the modest sum I paid, I am more than happy with the tuba. My problems are "user error."

I agree with the posters who suggest that sound is the overriding factor in what tuba to use. If it sounds great, who cares if it's CC or BBb. Like one poster above, I buy CC tubas because I can use trumpet fingerings. I never learned BBb bass clef fingerings and am too lazy to do so. If I were good at BBb bass clef fingerings, I would probably buy a BBb horn rather than a CC. A few years ago I made a brief visit to Tony Clements' home and he ran a BBb tuba through its paces, loud- soft, high-low, scales, etc. Fantastic sound. Of course, he's a pro and would make any tuba sound good.

Ace

talleyrand wrote:.......trying to figure out which "buttons to mash."

Not sure I get it..
An F is always an F, but depending an what key tuba will hit different fingering.

TBH..I sometimes miss a D or E keyed tuba.
That'd be cool for those sharp key written stuff

talleyrand wrote:

Bob Kolada wrote:What did you get?

Oh, it's nothing interesting. I got a previously owned example of the much-despised Jinbao 3/4 CC, M&M branded.

The previous owner had 3" taken out of the first valve loop. I had a bit taken out of #2, and had a leak fixed and a brace added. I'm using a Blokepiece Solo #1 with it. With these modifications a little attentive lipping, and a good pull on #1 to bring F below the staff down, it can be played in tune.

And it sounds amazingly rich, I must say. Sounds bigger than it is, especially now the leaky solder joint is fixed.

I only got it to learn to play with the CC fingerings, not because I expected it to be a great instrument. In view of this intention, and for the modest sum I paid, I am more than happy with the tuba. My problems are "user error."

If you like the way it sounds, can play it in tune, and are generally happy with it, I'd say "keep it"! Don't give up on the C fingerings -- you'll find the "user error" rate will go down. Be persistent!

Lectron wrote:

talleyrand wrote:.......trying to figure out which "buttons to mash."

Not sure I get it..
An F is always an F, but depending an what key tuba will hit different fingering.

That's just it: different fingerings. It goes okay as long as I have time to think, but as soon as there get to be more than one or two notes in a beat for many beats at a time, instinct or habit or whatever takes over and I start playing BBb fingerings.

Just got back from band rehearsal. Playing in the group actually seems to help, perhaps by increasing the pressure to get it right. Focuses the mind.

Is changing to CC worth it? To me it was. I still have BB-flat flashbacks, but I still love it. Remember, your pencil will erase from the music. Feel free to write in fingerings.

You bought it for the mental exercise. It sounds better than expected. Why at all considerations about chickening out?

I guess exactly you are aware about diverse mental approaches. One common one within brass playing is the exact and unreflected connection of the black dots and the fingerings. May be efficient in getting the right fingerings, but doesn’t further deeper understanding of the music. It have met tubists not able to play octave up or down because they had to stick to the dots.

Aside from varying number of valves, compensating/double instruments, and non-standard slide lengths the basic fingerings of all valved brasses are the same. Only the notation is offset. But the offset is always consistent with any given instrument. If the pedal note is offset a whole step up compared to your reference instrument, then all notes within the full range are offset one whole step up.

An old Danish comedian used to say: Learning French is no problem. Cheval is horse and so it goes all the way.

Klaus

I remember back to the school days playing the Eb only in brass band and G-key,
I never cared when given some F keyed notes to call the notes anything
else that what it was on my instrument....

Not really one of my brightest moments
The piano helped me thou, as my ear was locked to that one, not the
tuba. I could hear my tuba C was an Eb, not a C

I'm not going to chicken out, Klaus. I really want to get this done, and F is next. There are just these moments of immense frustration. I've gone cold turkey on BBb for these few weeks, because intuitively it seems it would make the process even slower if I were switching back and forth. And my band has a performance with some pretty challenging repertoire in two weeks. Hope I'm ready!

Pedagogy takes strategic planning. Even in teaching one self. I do know from my failures in that matter.

Your actual situation may call for an honest answer to a very specific question:

Which pitch, CC or BBb, will best allow me learning my parts for the upcoming performance?

Forget about longterm strategies, sight reading, scales, and whatever types like me use to sermon about.

Klaus

talleyrand wrote:I'm not going to chicken out, Klaus. I really want to get this done, and F is next. There are just these moments of immense frustration. I've gone cold turkey on BBb for these few weeks, because intuitively it seems it would make the process even slower if I were switching back and forth. And my band has a performance with some pretty challenging repertoire in two weeks. Hope I'm ready!

Learning another key is a worthy project.

Failing in your obligations to the ensemble is not.

Copy the parts, and write in *all* the fingerings.

Doc says it well!

My only addition would be that I read by intervals. Which is immensely much easier, if one knows ones all keys, scales, and intervals. There are dedicated practice systems for learning exactly scales and intervals on low brasses. Some even can be downloaded for free. Some players might want to combine those exercises with drones. Which also can be downloaded for free.

Klaus

hrender wrote:From stories told Mr. Bell could supposedly pick up any key of tuba and sight-read just about any piece of music. It would be interesting to know by what approach he reached this level of ability.

........Practice?

Just a thought, I recall reading a Bill Bell story saying that he would sight-sing constantly and could sing any melody with great tuning, rhythm and musical intent. Maybe this approach of having a solid "inner-ear" helped him approach other tubas....