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Hey Guys!

I am Nick Phillips, I play two BBb horns, one is a Yamaha YBB641,and the other one is a St. Petersburg 202n rotary. I play on a G&W Bayamo mouthpiece. I attend a performing arts high school in Houston, Texas. (HSPVA) for those of you in Houston. I need some advice on working on my upper register. I can play the Bb on the space above the staff, but I can tell it doesn't sound the best. Also, I am going to be buying a new horn in the future can you give me any advice on which one to buy? I am looking at a Miraphone 1292 New Yorker series CC, or a Willson Eb 3400. Any suggestions I have seen Allen Baers Meinl Weston 6450, but that is just to expensive at the moment.
If I plan to get a degree in music education and then maybe pursue another career, but witch horn should I buy? Also key I have always heard CC or F, but if I decide to pursue music after college it would be for a wind symphony or brass band. My St. Petersburg was bought used and is not looking so hot at the moment.

Thanks

Nick Phillips.

tubagod94 wrote:...I need some advice on working on my upper register. ...can you give me any advice on which one to buy? ...
If I plan to get a degree in music education and then maybe pursue another career, but witch horn should I buy? Also key I have always heard CC or F, but if I decide to pursue music after college it would be for a wind symphony or brass band...

Nick, you are asking a bunch of questions all at once. Since you are attending HSPVA, I'm assuming you are taking private lessons, and probably with a fairly high-end teacher. If not, then that's where you should spend you money now. Most of these questions should be directed to him, particularly those that involve your playing. Your teacher can hear you play and identify the issues with your upper register in the context of knowing where you've been and what sort of practice work you do, while we have only verbal descriptions and no knowledge of your history or methods.

Generally, when someone asks about their upper register, my first reaction is to wonder about their lower register. It takes both air and chops to play securely in the upper register. Most focus on chops without focusing on air, often taking shortcuts such as using pressure or pinching air to minimize their aperture because their embouchure is too flabby without those shortcuts. Without the air, the chops can't work. There are some embouchure moves that help in the upper register (search on the posts on this topic by Roger Lewis), but none of that will work without being fueled by good air flow and solid chops. Goodness knows I've had to learn this the hard way over the years.

If you do not intend to chase a performance career, are you sure you want a CC tuba? There's nothing wrong with buying a C, but if funds are tight you can get a better deal on a good Bb tuba, especially if you are willing to shop for a used instrument rather than a new one. One thing is certain: You do not need a 6450, even if they were cheap, in your situation. Instruments like the 6450 are specialty orchestral instruments, and they make it much more work in the many playing scenarios you will encounter in college, including solo and chamber music. Start with an instrument the size of the two you already have, but that fulfills your playing requirements. I'm assuming that the Yamaha and the St. Pete do not do so, else you'd have no reason to replace them. If you can't be clear and detailed about what you don't like about your current instruments, then keep saving your money and learn to play what you have better. Being beat up is not a defect unless it affects how the instrument plays, and then that can usually be repaired vastly more cheaply than buying something else.

For sure, though, you can live a happy and whole life in wind bands and brass bands with a Bb and an Eb, if you want to play both a contrabass and a bass tuba. The Willson is a great Eb, but there are other great Eb tubas, too, that are not as expensive as a Willson. But my advice is to settle your contrabass requirements first, and save the bass tuba for later, maybe much later.

Rick "who grew up in Houston but had no professional intentions and therefore declined the opportunity to attend HSPVA" Denney

I actually don't take lessons at the moment. I am about to start again though. I have had multiple masterclasses with David Kirk, and with Dr. Hebert who is over winds and tuba at Loyola University in New Orleans. I would venture to say that I have pretty good chops when it comes to the lower register. I can play the F four lines below the staff well with no "muffle or splatting" sound. I can hit the low Bb but it is hard on a BBb. I am just looking to get the best horn for what I intend to do and for my money.

tubagod94 wrote:I actually don't take lessons at the moment. I am about to start again though. I have had multiple masterclasses with David Kirk, and with Dr. Hebert who is over winds and tuba at Loyola University in New Orleans. I would venture to say that I have pretty good chops when it comes to the lower register. I can play the F four lines below the staff well with no "muffle or splatting" sound. I can hit the low Bb but it is hard on a BBb. I am just looking to get the best horn for what I intend to do and for my money.

Your lower register is, from my experience, not particularly inconsistent with how you describe your upper register.

Is there way to study more regularly with Dave Kirk, or at least one-on-one from time to time?

Rick "who lived in the same city as William Rose and never realized the opportunity lost by not taking some lessons with him" Denney

Rick Denney wrote:Your lower register is, from my experience, not particularly inconsistent with how you describe your upper register.

Well said Rick.

To the OP, I agree with Rick. Get some lessons from Dave Kirk. Ask him to play a Bb scale through his entire range. You may be surprised.

BTW, I am not familiar with your tubas; but a pedal Bb on a Bb tuba should not be hard.

Rick Denney wrote: If you do not intend to chase a performance career, are you sure you want a CC tuba? There's nothing wrong with buying a C, but if funds are tight you can get a better deal on a good Bb tuba, especially if you are willing to shop for a used instrument rather than a new one. One thing is certain: You do not need a 6450, even if they were cheap, in your situation. Instruments like the 6450 are specialty orchestral instruments, and they make it much more work in the many playing scenarios you will encounter in college, including solo and chamber music. Start with an instrument the size of the two you already have, but that fulfills your playing requirements. I'm assuming that the Yamaha and the St. Pete do not do so, else you'd have no reason to replace them. If you can't be clear and detailed about what you don't like about your current instruments, then keep saving your money and learn to play what you have better. Being beat up is not a defect unless it affects how the instrument plays, and then that can usually be repaired vastly more cheaply than buying something else.

For sure, though, you can live a happy and whole life in wind bands and brass bands with a Bb and an Eb, if you want to play both a contrabass and a bass tuba. The Willson is a great Eb, but there are other great Eb tubas, too, that are not as expensive as a Willson. But my advice is to settle your contrabass requirements first, and save the bass tuba for later, maybe much later.

+1

I would get more lessons with David Kirk but it is quite expensive. I am going to start taking lessons from the Houston Ballet tuba player. A pedal tone Bb is hard the horns I play after that the way the valves are set up it seems impossible to get any lower even with all four valves and pulling slides. Any horn suggestions for me when I start to look in depth around for a good one?

I don't think it's the horn, but I guarantee you that no one can tell you what's up with your low register or high register unless they're in the room with you, giving you a lesson. Don't sweat the equipment yet. Lessons are a lot cheaper, even with David Kirk.

Nick, you need to start shopping for the teacher and invest your money there. That Yamaha should serve a high school student well enough, I owned the same model myself in college. I made a comment about wanting a better one to my teacher, and he told me in no uncertain terms, I was not invited to blame anything on the horn. "That thing won't play itself," he told me, "and if it does, get out, the joint is haunted."

While you're looking (for the teacher), get your mouthpiece and buzz all your practice material on the mouthpiece alone. Buy "The Art of Trombone Playing" by Edward Kleinhammer, and read what he says about doing it.

Good luck!

Hi Nick,

The comments offered so far are advice which would be well taken.

DEFINITELY concentrate on getting lessons on a regular basis. A good teacher will be able to help you establish correct habits and develop an efficient practice regime. You are likely repeating some "bad" habits where you need to install "good" ones and the sooner you make the change in your playing the better. There is a lot to be said for doing a lot of practicing and we have all heard the axiom that "practice makes perfect". That holds true ONLY if the practice is perfect. You will certainly need somebody to help you develop "perfect practice".

Once your perfect practice has improved your playing you will be in a much better position to choose an instrument. A thousand dollars spent on a tuba won't get you much - unless you are very lucky. A thousand dollars spent on lessons with a good teacher WILL get you a lot - as long as you absorb what is given and develop your perfect practice.

For what you say you plan to do later a decent BBb will be quite satisfactory. In years gone by a lot of very good professional players used BBb almost exclusively so the current rot about how you must play CC to be considered "serious" is just that - a lot of rot.

It probably would not hurt to have a good tech check your instruments over to ensure they are not leaking and that the valves are properly aligned, especially the St Pete's rotaries. Poor valve alignment and/or leaks can make even the best instrument play terribly. I'm sure somebody on the board can recommend a competent tech in your area.

Good luck.

I planned latter on this month to get my horn into the shop to get it chem cleaned and get everything back in working order. I am looking forward to my lesson. I know I have bad habits, but it was all I knew at them time!

No, no, no, it's all wrong!

In order to win the audition, you have to have a YCB-826! C'mon guys! That's what wins the auditions, nothing else matters!

That is a load of bullshit. Get private lessons, use what you have. It will work just fine.

I see what y'all mean about lessons. I had about eight lessons with Mr. Kirk, he was very very helpful. Do y'all know if colleges will furnish a concert horn?(I have never marched before so I always mean concert)

tubagod94 wrote:A pedal tone Bb is hard the horns I play after that the way the valves are set up it seems impossible to get any lower even with all four valves and pulling slides.

How are you playing that note?

tubagod94 wrote:I see what y'all mean about lessons. I had about eight lessons with Mr. Kirk, he was very very helpful. Do y'all know if colleges will furnish a concert horn?(I have never marched before so I always mean concert)

Most schools have some horns... However, there is no way to know, except if you contact them or give us specifics about the schools you have in mind...

I play that pedal Bb open, and everything else is 4 and then the desired note fingering. I am looking at the Moores school of Music. I would be studying with Mr. Mark Barton, who I will soon be taking lessons from.

Mr. Kane!
I am very thankful for your "online lesson", and think it will be beneficial if I can just clarify what your saying.
Say if I am playing a low Eb which I have seen on fingering charts as 1 and 4, should I pull out the first valve slide or should I play it using the D fingering(1,2, and 4 for that octave)?

1+4+pull is the traditional way, but 124 works well too considering how easy it is to play sharp in the low register and if you're cranking it... I use flat fingerings most of the time in the pedal range (3 instead of 12, for example).

That makes much more sense. I have done that before, yet I have been told to use 1 and 4 instead. I will try that the next time I practice. I have developed a habit of always warming up with "pedal tones" for me that is the first Bb below the staff and down. So, I think this will help me a whole bunch!

Sweet! Thank you! False fingerings? I will look that up, it sounds interesting.