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Hi all -

Last week I bought a Conn sousaphone which my local brass expert tells me is a 38K. However, the serial number on the instrument is 534057, which according to Music Trader, would date it as 1955 production. Was the 38K still being made in 1955? I've seen references online (e.g. here) to production ending as early as 1931. If this is not a 38K, what is it -- maybe a 14K or 32K?

Here are a few pictures of the horn, including closeups of the S/N and the engraving on the bell. One other unusual (?) feature I'll mention is that there are only 2 bell screws.







Thanks for any info you can give me.

What's the story with the 2 bell screws? Is that standard / typical for a 14K?

runngdog wrote:What's the story with the 2 bell screws? Is that standard / typical for a 14K?

That was typical of a model Conn referred to as a 'lightweight'. I think you have a Conn 32K.

KiltieTuba wrote:.... The bell screws mean nothing, some have three, some two, some four....

Somewhat true, Ian. But... I think you'll find that the 32K 'lightweight' sousa had only two bell screws. I guess Conn thought that couple of ounces would help it qualify as lighter.

As a sidenote... The Archabby close to here donated a Conn sousa to a local high school. The collar was stamped 38K but it's in fact a 32K. Looks just like the one in the original post.

Are there any other features that would clearly differentiate the 14K from the 32K?

I ask because the picture of a 14K on http://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/Conn14Kd ... image.html seems to have the same 2-screw configuration as mine (unless my eyes are just deceiving me).

KiltieTuba wrote:

TubaTinker wrote:

KiltieTuba wrote:.... The bell screws mean nothing, some have three, some two, some four....

Somewhat true, Ian. But... I think you'll find that the 32K 'lightweight' sousa had only two bell screws. I guess Conn thought that couple of ounces would help it qualify as lighter.
...

Huh, never knew that!

Well then, how about a 20K from the 50s with two bell screws? ....

The 20K is distinguished by other striking characteristics. They can be confused with other sousaphones.

The 46K I had sported three screws while my 48K has four. Go figure. I sort of under the impression that there are no hard rules and productions lines just used what they had on some days.... or during production changes.

KiltieTuba wrote:.... Well then, how about a 20K from the 50s with two bell screws?

Although it was sold to me as a 20K, the brass repair guy who looked it over said it was not because it desn't have the short-action valves of the 20K (hence he assumed 38K).

I've also since measured the bell, and it seems to be 24" rather than the 26" of the 20K.

My 32k has 3 bell screws.

KiltieTuba wrote:

TubaTinker wrote:

KiltieTuba wrote:.... The bell screws mean nothing, some have three, some two, some four....

Somewhat true, Ian. But... I think you'll find that the 32K 'lightweight' sousa had only two bell screws. I guess Conn thought that couple of ounces would help it qualify as lighter.
...

Huh, never knew that!

Well then, how about a 20K from the 50s with two bell screws? Or some of the varying Conn jumbos with three and four bell screws? I'm sure you're right about the 32K, although this 32K (from Wichita Band Instrument Company) clearly has three bell screws...

And to answer the OP -- the 38K probably started the downward trend in production as the Great Depression wore on, although a model still "on the books," with its death knell being WWII.

For the record, I used to own a '30's 32K with three screws for the bell.

Enjoy your horn.

-Pat

iiipopes wrote:And to answer the OP -- the 38K probably started the downward trend in production as the Great Depression wore on, although a model still "on the books," with its death knell being WWII.

Without much data to support it, my impression is that the 32K died out around the same time (i.e. WWII). As best I can tell, the 14K was the first new 24" bell sousaphone Conn introduced after WWII, so one hypothesis might be that they used some leftover 32K parts on the first 14Ks produced in 1955. As someone mentioned elsewhere in this thread, the serial number on this instrument dates it to spring 1955, which would make it a relatively early one in the first year of production.

runngdog wrote:

iiipopes wrote:And to answer the OP -- the 38K probably started the downward trend in production as the Great Depression wore on, although a model still "on the books," with its death knell being WWII.

Without much data to support it, my impression is that the 32K died out around the same time (i.e. WWII). As best I can tell, the 14K was the first new 24" bell sousaphone Conn introduced after WWII, so one hypothesis might be that they used some leftover 32K parts on the first 14Ks produced in 1955. As someone mentioned elsewhere in this thread, the serial number on this instrument dates it to spring 1955, which would make it a relatively early one in the first year of production.

Conn had the tooling for the 14K before WWII. Then it was known as the "Cavalier" or the "Pan American." I've played a Cavalier, and I've played a 14K. Identical for all intents and practial purposes.

runngdog wrote:... Without much data to support it, my impression is that the 32K died out around the same time (i.e. WWII). As best I can tell, the 14K was the first new 24" bell sousaphone Conn introduced after WWII, so one hypothesis might be that they used some leftover 32K parts on the first 14Ks produced in 1955. As someone mentioned elsewhere in this thread, the serial number on this instrument dates it to spring 1955, which would make it a relatively early one in the first year of production.

Yup. I've seen wrong numbers stamped on horns.... repairs that eradicated old numbers and brought on new ones.... wrong parts used on new horns... and lots of strange things that one can assume were just running manufacturing changes.

Conn was especially bad about this... having several different manufacturing locations, fires, record destruction, and just plain old bad record keeping.