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I am looking to switch to a different valve oil for my MW 45slp. I've been using Hetman's Standard valve oil and tuning slide oil for several years now, but am tired of the green/yellow snot like build-up that I get in the horn. It seems that synthetic oils work better on the horn's valves. Any suggestions on what I should try?

I have ordered some Yamaha Synthetic valve oil, and Ultrapure tuning slide grease, but I'm interesting in getting other opinions/perspectives. Thanks in advance.

Blue Juice

imperialbari wrote:Blue Juice

I have build up problems with Blue Juice in my Firebird. It's not slime, but a bluish green solid. It's not nearly as bad as Hetman's Piston though.

I have been using Alisyn on my Cerveny rotary valves for well over a decade. I now use it on both the tuba and on the old oval euph I have. Previously I used it on my 321S piston valves and on the valves of my bass trombone. I just can't find anything better, and I never have any problems with "green slime" or any other kind of slime. That said, there are a couple of considerations you might think about:

1. Alisyn often gets a bad rap for being "too thick". In my experience this typically comes from trumpet players, and otherwise from players of piston valve instruments. I believe that very often these players are of the "more oil is better" school and accustomed to constantly oiling their valves. If you do this with Alisyn (or a similar oil), you may well get the results they complain about. Also, I think it just may not work as well on some piston valves, but it sure worked fine on my 321S, although that was pretty well used by the time I got it. I don't think there's anything wrong with the "more is better" approach -- so long as you use the right oil (very light) for this. But it's just one approach. As a test, I recently switched to the "ultra refined lamp oil with a bit of motor (or 3 and 1) oil". It worked fine, but I found I was using a lot more oil, oiling a lot more frequently, and that for me it didn't seem to work quite as well as the Alisyn does and was a lot less convenient. So I switched back. Just two different approaches. I think it is quite likely that if I had piston valves, I might do things differently. As it is, I oil about once every week or two and have no problems. Could probably get away with less than that. No odor, no taste, no fuss. Maybe a somewhat higher expense.
2. There is a lot of talk about not mixing dino oil with synthetic oils and the terrible things that will happen. I'm sure this is true, especially given the results with Hetman oils that we've seen recently here. But I have never seen such problems with the Alisyn, and I've done some of my own (much less formal) experimentation. I can switch back and forth from Alisyn to lamp oil, gun oil, whatever oil (never tried Hetman's) with absolutely no observable consequences. As a simple test I mixed a little sample of Alisyn and a couple of different types of oils and let these samples sit for a couple of months. No obvious problem. No separation. No weird results. When I switched back from the lamp oil, I just started using the Alisyn again without flushing the instrument first. No problems.

A few months ago I gave my tuba a thorough flushing and cleaning (first one in years), and only a few small flecks of some stuff got flushed out. This included snaking it and using 409. (A completely different experience from using the same approach to cleaning the old euph when I got it -- what a frightening mess of old black gunk!) So, on the basis of this experience, I'm pretty confident about my oils not causing any kind of gunk or build-ups.

Just my own experience and some thoughts.

For tuning slide grease I use pure anhydrous lanolin from a big jar I got from the Rite-Aid drug store 20 years ago. There's still a lot in the jar. I clean it off and replace it with reasonable frequency (every couple of months?) and every week I make sure that all my slides move freely.

La Tromba T2 is the best stuff I've used, and Roche Thomas works well too (and is easier to find). And I've tried quite a few brands.

T2 is my favorite for standard valve oils. It's not that hard to find.

I've been happy with the Yamaha synthetic ever since I switched from Hetman's because of the green slime. Just my $.02

bloke wrote:"The inside of your tuba IS your tuba."

+1
Well said. An obvious, but usually overlooked truth!

Done! Unfortunately, I don't have time to do this every couple of weeks, which is how long it takes the green slime to reappear.

so what is your recommendation? BTW, I did scrub and not just leave it soaking in the tub. Got the snake out went through the entire horn, etc. Not sure if that is what you meant with your statement in parenthesis, but just thought I needed to clarify.

If you don't have time to give your horn a complete bath, there's a new product out called the QHR (Quick Horn Rinse) with Sudser for large brass. It has a jar that attaches so you can add soap of your choice (I like Dawn) for a 'quick wash and rinse'. I bought one a few months ago and it works pretty well. The felts in your valves get wet though.

SLB-001 QHR Sudser for Large Brass
I have no affiliation with the mfr

Bloke:

I'm not offended. Advice is taken as intended with thanks. I haven't done that yet. When I get the cash, I'll make sure to take care of it. Thanks again.

My favorites are Hetman Light Piston and Blue Juice.

bloke wrote:Admittedly, I like Blue Juice...because it's color and scent are exactly like that of the old 1960's "Leblanc Valve Oil".

For color and scent, I prefer Basil Hayden. But although it may be considered some sort of "lubricant", in my experience it doesn't work well when applied directly to valves.

When I got my Willson Eb 10 years ago, I had that same slime build up with Hetman. Drove me nuts. I got no help from the company that represented Willson at that time. However, a friend of mine noticed me using Hetman's one day and commented on how he had the same slime buildup when he used Hetman (as you can see from the various responses you've gotten, ours is not an isolated case. Perhaps a class action suit is in order!). On kidding. On my friends suggestion, I had the horn cleaned via ultrasonic cleaning and switched to Al-Cass. The slime did not return. For me, Al-Cass is like the Dapper Dan of valve oil. I'm a Dapper Dan man.

Al Cass, spit, or just play it a bunch.

bloke wrote:Just like the guy who - in the past - charged people $$$'s to freeze their instruments (but required that people had them cleaned at the same time) - I believe the Al Cass had far less to do with your happiness than the cleaning job.

Oh, no doubt! I am sure there are other brands of valve oil that would do just fine. If, however, I had returned to the Hetman, my happiness would have been short lived. My friend suggested the Al Cass and since the slime has not returned ... I'm a Dapper Dan man! Off to rake leaves.

La Tromba T2 is for me the best possible Valve Oil. Concerning slides, I tried many different ones on trumpet and euphonium. I now use Courtois slide grease, which is not liquid at all, but very efficient. On a trumpet, where you often need to adjust the slides whilst playing, it is not the best, except if diluted with valve oil. But not the perfect solution. On the Euphonium, I think it is efficient and long lasting.

During the time I was in the Army, I became acquainted with "Al Cass", Al and
I became good friends. I am sensitive to vapors off of different valve oils, and
after trying several, I settled on Al. So over a good number of years, I have
been well satisfied. I do think that you may use Al more often than perhaps
some others, but in my opinion you will remain happy with him. I recently
was tempted into trying "Blue Juice", with the caveat of don't mix with other
valve oils. Also, I received a sample of the oil that Yamaha, is including with
their instrument maintenance package. Either of these would work for me in
a pinch, but I remain loyal to Al.

bloke wrote: Thank-you. (Any) valve oil cannot possibly be the source of the green coloration coming out the water-key. Your valve oil is carrying out a bit of what should be cleaned out otherwise.

If that were true, how do you explain this?



Incidentally, the stain on the bottle (which I assure you has never been stored INSIDE an instrument) is the exact same color of the gummy deposits I was getting in the bottom of my valve caps and in all the ports when I was using hetman piston oil. Which I haven't gotten at all with any other brand.

Oddly enough, I only get this with hetman piston oil and not with their rotary oils.