TubeNet

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I've got no lore, obviously, just a question. Was the person who said this talking quite definitely about the *sound*, especially as that is experienced out in the hall, or possibly something else, perhaps about the *player's* experience of the horn, like low (or high) register response or something like that?

Go check out the CSO Resound Brass Concert that was just released on iTUNEs and elsewhere. The Lincolnshire Posy and Passacaglia has some pretty clear tuba playing to give you an idea of the sound. Full with lots of oomph, growl and core is my interpretation.

York tubas sound big, round, poofy, and bright. They have a vocal quality to them, a lot like a 600 pound soprano.

I still don't know what "core" means.

I have never played the CSO York. However, the CSO York is very nice to listen to when played by itself, especially in the hands of its current caretaker. This cannot be said for many modern instruments, both significantly smaller and not.

my $.02.

I've seen Gene Pokorny play a few times in person (presumably on a York, as the horn has always looked kinda old ); personally I much prefer the big York sound over the medium ones. Those seem kinda chunky to me. Gene sounds great on the big one- colorful, full, appropriately weighty,... The best compliment (among many!) I can give is that he actually fulfills the argument most stalwart C players offer- the sound of a Bb with the playing ease of a shorter tuba. Rare indeed is the player who can do that. I'd like to hear him on that MW Bb, and even more on a rotary Bb!!


Those (awesome) German players on German horns have a definite brighter than "American horns"/piercing/... sound to them. I'd like to see those who adamantly oppose to such generalizations and emphatic wording (as that is all it is) use the same vigor on the opposite side of tubadom... Brighter or more direct does not necessarily equal tenor trombone like sounds.

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LJV wrote:Bob Kolada sounds like Bob Kolada...

Don't look at me!!!!

Bob, if you want to sound like Jake, you'll have to learn to dine at Berghoffs and drink many steins of dark German Beer with dinner in the company of a bunch of other tuba players.

Harvey Phillips was somewhat bothered by those who attributed Mr. Jacobs great sound to the York tubas. He was equally amused when the first York copies were manufactured by Hirsbrunner, as though one could buy Jake's sound. Harvey always said that the tubas should be called Jakes, NOT Yorks.

As great as Gene sounds in the orchestra, he has a sound of his own, in the same way Mr. Jacobs did. There are similarities, but it is definitely the player, not the hunk of brass, that has always been responsible for the sound produced while playing one of the Yorks.

On a related note, Mr. Jacobs sound on the Reiner recording of Tchaikovsky 6 does not sound too dissimilar to any of his other recordings, even though he was playing a six valve Alexander F tuba. York or Alex, he always sounds like Jake.

tuben wrote:

TheHatTuba wrote:the German laser/direct sound.

Groan.... Listen to Walter Hilgers, Paul Halwax, Alexander von Puttkamer, Ron Bishop (on his Alex), Schmitz (on his Alex) and tell me if those are laser/direct sounds....

Laser sounds? No. Direct sounds? Yes. Full-bodied and deep, but direct.

cjk wrote:York tubas sound big, round, poofy, and bright. They have a vocal quality to them, a lot like a 600 pound soprano.

I still don't know what "core" means.

Dunno if I agree with the big York being "bright" in sound, but your other descriptions seem right-on to me.
OTOH, the 4/4 York CC DOES sound bright to me. But the 'Monster' Eb's sound round, poofy and dark/darkish......kinda like smaller versions of the CSO 6/4 CC.



"Core" to me means: a sound that has some 'meat' to it and a clear center of pitch.

"POOFY", Now what the H... does that mean? Mushy, bland, weak, full of hot air, limp-wristed, or produced by somebody who could out drag Danny LaRue???????

There was certainly never any way Jake's sound on any instrument could be described in any of those terms. Yes, you could certainly pick Jake's playing on most any instrument for a number of reasons beyond "the sound". Same would apply to Harvey and others at the top of the game. Prior to the performance of the RVW on a pops concert with Morton Gould conducting, Jake had CSO 1 at home as well as a "4/4" York which has since travelled as far as Brisbane Australia, at least.. He played through several passages on each, as well as his Alex F which I had traded to him for the 7 valve Alex F which Gary (?) Buttery now has and would have been the one used on the Reiner mentioned earlier. Bud and the boys were of the opinion that the big York was the horn to use because "IT produced the "Jacobs" sound" which everyone would expect to hear. With the ALex he did not produce 'his' sound. It was beautiful, but not Jake. My opinion was that the 4/4 would have been THE one for him to use. It just gave a bit more clairty and finesse and he said he was inclined to agree. In the end ole No1 was used and when I was asked what I thought about it all after the concert, said I would have preferred the 4/4 and I didn't get an argument.

As for "German" sound, years ago, at least, the CSO was often referred to as "the most German" sounding orchestra in the world whereas Boston was often called the most "French" sounding. Philly was Philly - especially the strings. You would often get debate about which orchestra had "the Best Brass" Chicago, Cleveland, Detroit, NY Phil, Berlin, Vienna, and Philly came up most often. It OFTEN seemed linked to where a person came from with their 'home' tending to be their favourite. I can't recall every hearing anybody call Chicago or Jake bad or.....POOFY.

happyroman wrote:Harvey Phillips was somewhat bothered by those who attributed Mr. Jacobs great sound to the York tubas. He was equally amused when the first York copies were manufactured by Hirsbrunner, as though one could buy Jake's sound. Harvey always said that the tubas should be called Jakes, NOT Yorks.

As great as Gene sounds in the orchestra, he has a sound of his own, in the same way Mr. Jacobs did. There are similarities, but it is definitely the player, not the hunk of brass, that has always been responsible for the sound produced while playing one of the Yorks.

If it were always the case that the player makes the sound and not the hunk of brass in front of them, why don't we all just play sousaphones? There are certainly styles of playing and phrasing, but surely the instrument has some contribution to the character and quality of sound produced. (and don't call me Shirley)

luke_hollis wrote:

happyroman wrote:Harvey Phillips was somewhat bothered by those who attributed Mr. Jacobs great sound to the York tubas. He was equally amused when the first York copies were manufactured by Hirsbrunner, as though one could buy Jake's sound. Harvey always said that the tubas should be called Jakes, NOT Yorks.

As great as Gene sounds in the orchestra, he has a sound of his own, in the same way Mr. Jacobs did. There are similarities, but it is definitely the player, not the hunk of brass, that has always been responsible for the sound produced while playing one of the Yorks.

If it were always the case that the player makes the sound and not the hunk of brass in front of them, why don't we all just play sousaphones? There are certainly styles of playing and phrasing, but surely the instrument has some contribution to the character and quality of sound produced. (and don't call me Shirley)

Warren Deck did a master class at Indiana University in 1983 that I was lucky enough to attend. During the master class, he was demonstrating some of the modifications he had made (and was in the process of making) to the Geib/Conn CC Tuba he used after switching from his Holton. One of the modifications was to use a Meinl-Weston bell for Berlioz, etc. He also was in the process of taking a larger bore valve set and designing interchangeable tubing so he could adjust the bore size of the instrument.

He explained that none of these modifications were being made because he couldn't play certain repertoire on the big tuba. They simply made it easier to produce the sound he had in his head.

I think that's what its all about. We all have a basic sound that we want to produce, and seek to find the best choice of equipment to allow us to create the sound that we hear in our heads.

Obviously, the "hunk of brass" makes a difference, sometimes a huge difference. I just think that the player is the greatest variable and the instrument its less important than most people want to admit.

I also think that a lot of people were buying the original Yorkbrunners because they thought it would make them "sound like Jake." My point is that most of the characteristic York sound should be attributed to Mr. Jacobs, NOT the tuba.

As an aside, when he was asked about the Yorkbrunner, then going for the astronomical price of $10,000, Warren said that Toby Hanks had the best line he had heard: "For $10,000, it aught to blow me."

happyroman wrote:. . . the player is the greatest variable and the instrument its less important than most people want to admit.

I think that sums it up right there. Bob Tucci reminded me once that tubas are just tools . . . and craftsmen want to work with the best tools they can . . . but at the end of the day, they are just tools. The excellence of the craft is in the craftsman, not the tool.

Ken Herrick wrote:"POOFY", Now what the H... does that mean? Mushy, bland, weak, full of hot air, limp-wristed, or produced by somebody who could out drag Danny LaRue???????

Man, you get so emotional sometimes. It's hilarious

I think what cjk meant by "poofy" is a sound that is velvety, round, fat, diffuse and buoyant. Not at all a bad thing, just a description of the big York sound.

That is a relief!!!!!!!!!!!