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Hello all!

I was wondering if anyone has opinions on what euphonium to invest in? I will be in the market for one soon.

Here are some potential euphs I'm thinking of:

MW 751
Willson 2950
Miraphone 2050
Kanstul 976
A used Besson (particularly from the 1960's/70's)

I am planning on a trip to Horn Guys (closest retailer to where I'm located) to test some of the horns listed above.

I'd love to hear comments/feedback/opinions about any of the horns listed or other suggestions!

Ok, my opinions:

MW: really poor intonation, uneven response. I really dislike this one.

Willson 2950: somewhat dull sound compared to some of the others, however it's a sound that is in vogue to some extent. one color, a little stiff feeling. Intonation can be pretty good. I always feel like I have to work hard to play willsons

Miraphone 5050: nice, easy to play, very BIG tuba-like sound but fast response and easy to color.

Kanstul: I haven't tried it, but I haven't been super impressed with the valves on Kanstul lower brasses, they are using metal guides and monel (they use this as a selling point) but they just don't seem as smooth and quiet as the stainless steel/plastic everyone else seems to be using. Maybe the quality of the felts, also?

Old besson: very poor intonation. Can have a really nice sound but often have a lot of mechanical issues especially if they haven't been well cared for. Smaller more focused sound than is the fashion these days. There are good ones and bad ones.

Other good ones you didn't mention:

New (post-2007) Besson: rich singing sound, decent intonation. Best valves ever. Easy quick response, plays itself even at ppp. My fave.

Sterling: my second fave. Really excellent intonation, a little thicker sound than besson at the expense of some of the response.

Yamaha 842: Monel valves but they do feel really nice. Very quick response but a fairly light sound.

Yamaha Neo 642-ii: new model I haven't tried yet but the old one was pretty good

Adams: I only tried one briefly. They have a lot of customizable options, but the one I tried had a relatively lighht sound but played very easily, I felt it had at least a few uneven notes though. Beautifully made.

I LOVE me some Miraphone 1258; it's my favorite comp euph. Don't ignore the King 2280 or Yamaha 321 either.

I would agree in almost every instance with bbocaner's assessments and would add a couple of things:

-the Kanstul euphs I've played have felt like less good versions of my Besson 2052. It feels like a very well made copy, without the great valves and tone color (but at a more attractive price and with options for customization)

-take ergonomics into consideration when choosing a new euphonium. What feels the best in the shop my end up causing you severe pain down the road. For example, the aforementioned Besson 2052 is design with a rather short British guy in mind, vs. the Miraphone 5050 which was built for a far larger gentleman from Alabama. Because of the length of my arms (obscene even for my 6' 3" frame) I've found that the latter instrument fits me far better than the former.

Best of luck with your new-horn odyssey

My first choice horn on your list would be the Miraphone 5050. It's a big horn, but big sound!. It has great intonation and the upper range is great. The one I got to try DID NOT have the tuning trigger—and I didn't think I needed one. The 6th partial 'F' was a bit sharp but I could easily lip to go flat (something I can't do on my horn). The 'G' on the staff is a bit flat and I could manage using 3rd valve. I think that's about the only note Demondrae Thurman has to use his trigger for.

As 'bbocaner' suggests, one other horn I would look at is the new Yamaha 642 Neo. A different bell material and leadpipe than the 642 gives it a different tone color.

Never tried the Kanstul, but I understand it's one of the few 'pro horns' that has a smaller bore (.570). I spoke with Will (forgot his last name) who played with the Air Force Band a few years ago. They used Kanstuls and they had to fight some intonation issues.

My friend that owns a Nirschl is very happy with it. He can get a great sound on it too.

Willson 2900 or new Yamaha Neo or Besson Prestige (although pricy)

I largely concur with bbocaner's assessments, though I would choose the Miraphone 5050 and the Sterling over the Besson.

The Kanstuls I've tried (three) were VERY squirrelly in terms of intonation and response: I would rate them below the MW 751, and even the 451. Two of the three also had noticeable fit and finish issues.

Among the Willsons, I would go with either the 2900BT (large shank, different leadpipe) or the 2960 Celebration over the 2950 (though I would go the 2950 over the euro-shank 2900). IMO, both are more flexible, mroe responsive, and have a livelier sound, than the 2950.

LManasco's point about ergonomics is a good one. If you have small hands or are accustomed to hooking your thumb inside the third valve slide receiver and operating the 4th valve with your index finger, the Adams, which has the longest reach between the two of any euph I've tried, may not be a good choice. I tried the Adams that Custom Music had on display at TUSABTEC and the one at Tuba Exchange, and could "just" operate the 4th valve with my middle finger with my thumb resting on top of the third valve slide receiver. Neither would be manageable for me if they had had a main tuning slide trigger.

OTOH, the Miraphone 5050 has a reputation for being a wide horn, and it certainly does appear to be wider than most euphs, however, I'm 5'6, have relatively short arms, and small hands, but have no difficulty reaching the 4th valve or operating it with my index finger. In fact, I find the 5050 more comfortable ergonomically than my Sterling, which I chose over the Besson and the York 4052 because it was a better fit ergonomically. Had the 5050 been available in early 2006, I probably would have gotten it instead of the Sterling.

Thank you everyone for your thoughts/opinions thus far! It's helping my selection process a bunch!
I remember playing a Kanstul at ITEC in '09 and recalling it was difficult to work with and didn't have the ease of playability as compared to a Besson. I put it on the list hoping that they'd improved since '09.
I put the Willson on the list because I've always enjoyed the gorgeous sounds of Brian Bowman! If I were to go with a Willson, I would go with their 2975FA; the ergonomics made it easier to switch from tuba/euph and the tuning-slide is conveniently placed to push/pull without the need for a trigger.
As far as the 5050 goes...I remember being given the opportunity by Demondrae to try out his horn a couple years ago and LOVED it! It had such a big, rich, luscious sound while still being nimble. I didn't need to use the trigger at all.

I think bbconer nailed it on the comp chart (props to him). I use a besson 967, great sound but difficult intonation (6th partial). IMHO the new besson prestige and yamaha neo are pretty good for the cost. I haven't tried the 5050, it is a very large horn and I have heard great reviews. One other thing to consider is the main tuning slide trigger (wish I had one), the besson and miraphone come with triggers(stock) where the yamaha does not(plays so well in tune may not need one). Sterling and Adams are a bit expensive, but custom horns are so nice if you know how you want it designed. I believe Sterling will let you choose where braces and guards are placed, as well as many other features.

darth2ba wrote:. . . If I were to go with a Willson, I would go with their 2975FA; the ergonomics made it easier to switch from tuba/euph and the tuning-slide is conveniently placed to push/pull without the need for a trigger . . . .

Re switching top to front:
I played 3+1 for a couple decades, although I've always preferred pinkie-fourth. I found it a non-issue to switch back and forth from 4fa to 3+1ta.

Re available tuning slide:
Perhaps attributable to my pair of tin ears, but I don't tinker with the slide on my 2975 (whereas on a 1980/81 967, it was distracting work to play in tune until it got a main tuning trigger).
Inspired by this thread, I tried adjusting the 2975's main tuning while playing, and disliked it. The tuba's greater size provides inertia, anchor points on my legs and arms, and a fulcrum, so my left is free to pull slides, but on the 2975, my left hand supports the horn; it's not free to move the slide. A stand would probably facilitate (but my Stewart's in a box somewhere, so I didn't experiment), or a trumpet-like kicker saddle or thumb ring soldered on to the main tuning would allow a hand grip at 10:00 on the bow and provide slide movement with a thumb flick.

But main-tuning-availability wouldn't be a purchase factor for me; It would probably make sense to prioritize around other requirements and, if necessary, install a trigger after-market.

I like the Willson for its lovely, velvet tone and great playability.

My bad,I didn't see that part of the thread about the trigger. The Wilson Euphs are very nice and solid builds. I've played on a couple of them(test drives) and loved the response and color throughout its range.