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This is a serious question. Screenwriters and playwrites are not called actors. Architects are not called builders. Why are composers called musicians?

I realize that most composers are also musicians, some of them highly skilled on musical instruments. But, playing an instrument is not the same as writing music.

I'm not sure how to answer that, but when listening to something really great (symphony or solo), a lot of times I'm not only impressed by the skill of the performer, but amazed that the composer could dream up such a piece in the first place.

Mark wrote: I realize that most composers are also musicians, some of them highly skilled on musical instruments. But, playing an instrument is not the same as writing music.

I would be really amazed to find a composer who hadn't, at some point or another in their life, been an instrumentalist/performer. Also, I think the term musician encompasses a lot of different people...(From amateurs to pros; Folk to Classical; etc...) Why shouldn't it also include those who create music? (Composers)

But, what puzzles me most is where did you hear the statement that composers are musicians?

You start from a false premise - musician does not mean "one who plays an instrument", it applies to any musical faculty, including composition. [Edit: and percussion, too!]

Between someone who can play an instrument but only when told what notes to play and how long, vs. someone who can play no instrument but knows how to create music, who's the musician?

If any of the old composers lived today, they'd asked you why you never play some of your own stuff

Very interesting topic!

In my opinion, every part (role) is different but very important to make music.

Composers, performers and listeners. (and of course one person can be all these at the same time).

And all these are musicians. Or at least they should...

Mark wrote:This is a serious question. Screenwriters and playrights are not called actors. Architects are not called builders. Why are composers called musicians?

I realize that most composers are also musicians, some of them highly skilled on musical instruments. But, playing an instrument is not the same as writing music.

I agree with Donn. Most composers are very good musicians.

Composers, performers and listeners. (and of course one person can be all these at the same time).

A teacher of mine used to draw a triangle on the board and label the three sides with those exact terms. His point: if you want to be a musician you have to work at all three.
BTW you don't necessarily have to be sitting at a desk scribbling notes on paper to be a "composer".

Are tuba players considered musicians?

cjk wrote:Are tuba players considered musicians?

No.

Donn wrote:You start from a false premise - musician does not mean "one who plays an instrument", it applies to any musical faculty, including composition.

Are musicologists and musical history professors musicians?

And back to my original post, starting with your premise, playwrites are actors. But, an actor is not an actor unless he also writes plays.

Mark wrote:

Donn wrote:You start from a false premise - musician does not mean "one who plays an instrument", it applies to any musical faculty, including composition.

Are musicologists and musical history professors musicians?

And back to my original post, starting with your premise, playwrites are actors. But, an actor is not an actor unless he also writes plays.

This is not unlike presuming that an Egyptologist is Egyptian. As soon as you stick "ologist" or history professor on the end of something you have shifted the spectrum.

Actors, playwrights, and directors are all dramatists.

Poets, story writers and novelists are all writers.

Performers, composers and conductors are all musicians.

I don't think this is a theoretical issue, just a vocabulary issue.

Also, if you don't understand what you're playing well enough to compose something, I doubt I want to hear what you play. But that's another issue.

Mark wrote: And back to my original post, starting with your premise, playwrites are actors. But, an actor is not an actor unless he also writes plays.

As noted above, this is about vocabulary. The role of actors in a play might be parallel to the role of musicians in a band*, but the terms actor and musician are not themselves parallel in that way - musician is more broadly defined. A dictionary would help here.

(* conductor would indeed be a musician, so I guess it has to be a band with no conductor. )

ginnboonmiller wrote:Actors, playwrights, and directors are all dramatists.

So, comedians are not actors.

ginnboonmiller wrote:Also, if you don't understand what you're playing well enough to compose something, I doubt I want to hear what you play.

So, if an actor cannot write a screenplay, you don't want to see his movie?

Mark wrote:

ginnboonmiller wrote:Actors, playwrights, and directors are all dramatists.

So, comedians are not actors.

Cf. comedic actor.

Doc wrote:This statement, however, is utterly preposterous:

ginnboonmiller wrote: conductors are all musicians.

Give a monkey a stick, and now he's a musician? Call the stick a baton or drumstick if you want, but a monkey is still a monkey.

But can a monkey punch your ticket or help an elderly woman on or off the train? And, I have never heard a monkey shout "All aboard".

Mark wrote: So, if an actor cannot write a screenplay, you don't want to see his movie?

I make rare exceptions in the case of Flipper's shockingly honest portrayal of a helpful dolphin, and the moving, bittersweet early work of Mary Kate and Ashley Olson.

bloke wrote:Why is a guy who owns a construction company (and never picks up a hammer or saw) called a "builder" ?

Or general contractor. I have hired these guys before and if any of their workers were in the military, I'm sure they weren't generals.

chronolith wrote:

Mark wrote:

Donn wrote:You start from a false premise - musician does not mean "one who plays an instrument", it applies to any musical faculty, including composition.

Are musicologists and musical history professors musicians?

And back to my original post, starting with your premise, playwrites are actors. But, an actor is not an actor unless he also writes plays.

This is not unlike presuming that an Egyptologist is Egyptian. As soon as you stick "ologist" or history professor on the end of something you have shifted the spectrum.

But, Donn said:

Donn wrote:musician ... it applies to any musical faculty, ...

and in every school I am aware of, musicologist are designated as faculty in the music department.