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Hey everybody,

I have a 1974 45 MW f tuba that I purchased from Lee Stofer awhile back. It is very difficult to center the pitch on low e, d, c, and b natural. These are the notes just below the bass clef staff. When I owned a 45S (6/4) I fixed the problem with a Alan Baer euro shank f tuba mouthpiece(G&W), after trying about 14 diferent mouthpieces. The 45 I have now is more towards a 4/4 size, smaller diameter bore, and all the tubing is the same size throughout the valves. Would it help the low range if I went with a larger bored 4th valve and tubing? For mouthpieces, I have tried a M9 (RM), PT72, new Kanstul Eb/F mouthpiece, and a schilke 66. I like the PT72 sound but the low notes mentioned above still don't center. Not sure what to try next.

Brent Vokes

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Upon changing from BBb to F in a youth concert band way back when, I´d been there and noticed exactly the low-notes-quirks You describe. One thing helped: I was the only tuba in band at the time, therefore I had to play BBb parts on that MW46 all the time.
I feel it just has to do with dosage of air and pressure down there. I grant myself the boldness to say that I solved those sound issues by practising alone (no teacher around back then), and within reasonable time.
That was in 1993, on a horn dating from 1988.
Ever since, I haven´t encountered one single F-tuba of close to modern production that couldn´t be played with OK sound right away and good sound after an hour of "getting acquainted".

Hans

I learned F tuba on a MW 45 and played one for a good while. You have to learn how to use the resistance to your advantage and learn to direct your airstream in the low range. You might want to try to focus on a steady sound, not necessarily a "loud" or "big" sound. You could also practice long tones from low F down to pedal F, chromatically; play Ride of the Valkyries ( ) and other low orchestral excerpts on it; play musically in the low register (for example the Snedecor book or Bordogni 8vb); work on scales in the low register that link the low register to the high register of the horn and focus on maintaining the same sound throughout the registers.

I've found, in my limited experience, that larger mouthpieces make those low notes even harder to center, and I think (and may very well be wrong) that the lack of resonance you're experiencing from E-C is idiomatic to your tuba, regardless of what you plug into the receiver. Some mouthpieces may alleviate the problem, but won't necessarily solve it completely; I had good success with a PT-65s and a Sellmansberger Solo #1.

Note: I am a college hack and these are things that helped me tame the MW 45. Your mileage may vary.

I agree, that the low C range on a traditional F tuba must be learned. My recipe is a wide-and-shallow cup mouthpiece, and lots of practice.

At one time, Dan Perantoni told a group of us young tuba players to think of that low C more in terms of playing low C on a bass trombone, instead of expecting it to play like low C on a CC tuba. That range of a traditional F tuba makes one work more, but is also likely to allow you to be a better player once you have mastered it. I committed myself to F tuba some years ago, when I finally had daily access to one in the military, by committing myself to play F tuba for EVERYTHING (except the sousaphone gigs outdoors) for a year. The first month was very long and I was tempted to quit, but after a couple of months of hard work it consistently got better through the rest of the year. I've owned a couple of older Meinl-Weston F-tubas, which really are good performers when one puts the time in on the instrument.

Of course, now I am getting totally spoiled with a Kanstul F, where the low C range is as clear and resonant as a CC tuba, and I'm not having to work hard at all. I'm currently using one to play in a local chamber wind ensemble, where it very nicely balances a 25-30 piece ensemble, and I'm pumped about an upcoming brass quintet series. I think it will allow me to blow enough to get the really resonant sound I want without being large-enough to be overbearing.

One important way to really guage what is going on, is to record yourself playing the instrument. I did this with a brass quintet in rehearsals while in Atlanta. I did not think that I was doing very well with a given F tuba, and prevailed upon my colleagues to play several pieces twice, once with me on F tuba and then again on a small CC tuba. I was sure that the CC sounded better (both instruments were of the same make), but in listening to the playback, there was no discernable difference in the two takes. What was different was the feedback I was getting through the mouthpiece, the feeling, not what was emanating from the bell.

Thanks everyone for the excellent ideas. I will apply what I've learned and let you all know the results. Some of the quirkiness of this 1974 horn and other "old" rotary horns (in 1974 I was in my junior year, a euphonium major/voice minor at Capital U.=old?) The newer horns like the 653, 2250, firebird, kanstul, etc., the brass makers seemed to work some of that quirkiness out of their horns.Thanks for your responses.
Vokes

To echo what the others have said, you really just need to put in the time to get it right. I'm assuming that you *can* get the notes to center in isolation, just not easily or quickly like you'd need to do while playing any reasonable piece of music. The task then is to make this easier to do. It's sort of like learning a new key of tuba, and the mental process of "do this to make the tuba do that..." You have to build (and maintain) that memory and the connection between you and the tuba.

Yep. That sounds good too. thanks!