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Hi-
For those of you who double on trombone and who bought one of the new plastic 'pbones'--how is it and do you like it?

Regards-
Mark

I'm still waiting for the inflatable....

My red pBone arrived last week. Honestly, I am not impressed.

Already the unpadded bag gives a cheap impression. The clumsy design supports that impression. Is it necessary for the bell and lower bell stack being in two sections?

To be fair the slide action is way better than expected even without lubrication, but the non-plated brass stockings are bound to corrode.

The upper cross stay on the hand slide has a small ergonomic protrusion. The lower barrel has a slot milled to accept that protrusion. Only the slot is milled to narrowly, so there is a click every time the slide returns to 1st position.

I don’t have boutique trombones, maybe except one of the altos, but I like especially my Conn and my Kings because they are alive and responsive. The pBone is very far from being alive and responsive. Even if I do no longer teach, I still think like a teacher, so I had hoped for the arrival of an obvious beginners trombone. I wouldn’t recommend the pBone as a first trombone. There my default recommendation still is the Yamaha 354 or the old Besson Westminster. Not the most refined trombones, but very reliable.

Klaus

Klaus, would you say that it's better or worse than any $150 plastic trombone you've played?

I mean, for a pro instrument, it's probably a cheap piece of crap. But for a cheap piece of crap, don't you think it's even commendable that you've been able to review it with such absurdly high standards?

I don’t understand your question.

Klaus

From the sound, lack of response, and lack of resonance I suspected a leak. The water key is placed so it is hard to see whether it seals well. So I filled first the slide, then the bell, and finally the assembled instrument with water.

No leak in the water key area, nor in the slide-to-bell assembly. But the large bore side of the main tuning slide leaked a bit, so I greased it with Yamaha’s thick tuning slide petrol jelly (thicker than Vaseline). Still not playing really well, so tried to run my very long snake through the slide after inspecting the straight portions of the bell visually.

It is not possible to run a snake through the slide section due to sharp corners in the bottom crook. Still I would be very surprised if there was any blockage in a new instrument.

I had planned on buying a couple more and give them to a couple of kids in my environment. This will not happen, as I don’t think any kid deserves such bad instrument.

Klaus

ginnboonmiller wrote:........ $150 plastic trombone .......

........... cheap piece of crap.

It's sometimes funny how we view money differently. I'm a cheapskate, so $150 for a "piece of crap" seems quite pricey for a toy. $20 I could swing without thinking....

PM "who has bought a reasonably decent trombone for about $100 previously"

Well I quite like mine!

Admittedly I am no trombone expert, and mine was from a different batch (one of the batches after the original red batch before they were shipping outside of Europe) which might have some influence, but mine responds and doesnt play like it has any leaks. The slide movement could be better, but then again i havent lubed it yet!

Its fun to play, but ive used it playing both first and second trombone in a couple of gigs and had nothing but positive feedback!

What will pDiddy think of next?

I don't own one...

But my first thought was the same as others, I could buy an *actual* trombone for $150. The difference here being that a clumsy/destructive/jerk student who is not really interested should have a harder time damaging the pBone to a point of no return. I learned to play trombone in HS, and had a choice of 2 horns -- one with a "kink" in the slide around position 4, and one with a "kink" at position 1. I'd like to think the pBone would have a more durable be harder to damage.

Yeah, but it's a really cool piece of crap! My wife uses mine to teach lessons. Does it sound like a Bach, or Shires? No, but for $150 what do you expect? It would be great outside, or for a football game, or pep band, or for a beginner, or a parade, or a gig in a bar, or a parking lot or if you have a mic in the bell. It's totally disposable!! You should get one!!! (this is not a paid endorsement)

goodgigs wrote:What hasn't bin mentioned - not even once is that in Great Brittan the thing costs less then $90.00 US.
This may be what is going to pay for Conn's new UAW contract. Also for some, that might put it into
the "toy" price range.

I think you may have outdated info, the cost is currently 90GBP which is about $140 US today.

http://www.xe.com/ucc/convert/?Amount=8 ... GBP&To=USD" target="_blank

http://www.pbone.co.uk/" target="_blank

I wonder if it would be a good pep band/football game instrument for the bleachers because of the greater chance of damage to the more expensive instruments due to greater traffic and close quarters?

I would not mind having one just for fun.

I like mine a great deal. And my audiences REALLY like it!

Trombone and Tuba are my equal primary instruments, and while I had low expectations of the ax, I thought it might be "cool" for shtick and durable for Dixieland parades and other outdoor uses. It's wildly exceeded my expectations.

TRUE: You could get a brass trombone for $150; odds are, you'd have some damage and - more pertinent to this things creation, and instrument susceptible to dents.

TRUE: It's not a Shires or a Bach 12 or King 3B; however, it plays way better than it has any right to. It's actually quite brilliant. And while some may scoff and think they could do it better, look closely at how many little differences in design had to occur to make this feasible. The mouthpiece collar, the lock, the waterkey, the slide receiver, the tuning slide, the stockings, the bow, the counterweight... so many interesting and creative decisions.

TRUE: It's an unpadded (almost) bag. But, um, you see, um... ITS PLASTIC. It won't dent.

TRUE: The bell is made in two pieces. Um; it's plastic, and there're no issues with this regarding "resonance" per se up and down the bell.

TRUE: To the player, it may seem slightly "dead"; but remember the bell doesn't resonate the same way, so the player's feedback will be much different.

That said, when I bring it to small-bore gigs of late, it's a charmer, for audience and band mates alike. It's squirrely a little bit on the high D and above, and stuffy on pedal Bb and down (but with terrific false tones!). And you tire from playing it not at ALL! It's great to bring to lessons, fun for outside, has terrific shakes and trills, and brings joy to the audience. And for a pittance. How much did your iPhone, Wii, or other “toys” cost you? More than this!

And if you were to destroy it, it's disposable and recyclable. And whatever you did to destroy it would cause a hell of a lot more than $150.00 damage to a brass horn.

It's not for everyone. But if you're an adaptable player, or starting a young child, or are sick of repairing your kid's marching 'bone, this is a great answer. And mine's red

J.c.S.

My friend bought one and though I do not play trombone it sounded quite good considering it was made of plastic. It was dead in comparison to a new brass bone but still not what I would consider "bad." He is still pleased after a month.

ginnboonmiller wrote:Klaus, would you say that it's better or worse than any $150 plastic trombone you've played?

I mean, for a pro instrument, it's probably a cheap piece of crap. But for a cheap piece of crap, don't you think it's even commendable that you've been able to review it with such absurdly high standards?

Awesome.

the elephant wrote:I love mine. I have thrashed the neighbor's pit bull with it twice now and it lived up to my expectations 100%. Unfortunately, the dratted beast now has one of his own. I fear our first duel...

Even more awesome.

As you might expect (and as they do anyway):

Brownish

This all brings to mind the problems - the biases - with plastic musical instruments and accessories.

One band director was really angry we sold one of his students a pBone (to replace his unplayable Conn Director); then he saw Jiggs Wigham play (live here in Cleveland) and suddenly he's all for it. Never apologized, of course.

Another has badmouthed me to my student because I loaned him a 1.5G Kelly bass bone mouthpiece, because the director gave him a Bach 5G for a Benge 290. Doesn't matter I had just played a musical run on it.

Another saw my student play a white Kelly 18 and freaked out, telling the whole band they were forbidden. 'Til we slyly mentioned Ron Bishop had used plastic for years. And, of course, in front of the plastic clarinets and piccolos.

People hear with their eyes. Prejudge. I love my old (they made several shapes) DEG plastic on my Kalison DSCC. I've since moved to a custom 'piece, but the conductor couldn't care less. My section mates couldn't believe it until I played it - side by side - with a metal one. They had to admit, in that combination, the plastic sounded better.

It's not always the right selection, but plastics afford certain variety and flexibilities. Almost all my mouthpieces for general use are metal. I keep a set of Kelly's in the trunk for emergencies and loaning to students. But what is with the absolute hatred of plastic?!? There are decent plastic clarinets, bassoons and piccolos; did those stumble through the same issues of acceptance?

(Bloke may counter with my dislike for Stainless - but it's just not comfortable to me. I have no problem with others using them at all.)

J.c.S.

J.c. Sherman wrote:
People hear with their eyes.

So true!

J.c. Sherman wrote: It's not always the right selection, but plastics afford certain variety and flexibilities. Almost all my mouthpieces for general use are metal.

I think flexibility is the right term here. I have always found, and I am certain I am not the only one, that Kelly mouthpieces offer a LOT more flexibility than metal ones. They are easier to make vibrate and it is easier to distort, bend, scoop...etc than it seems on a metal horn.

The point were I would be cautious with recommending a plastic horn/mouthpiece to a student is in the scenario where they are a total beginner. I have had beginner trombone students and, for the the most part, they were mostly not that adaptable to change. A change in equipment could take them several months to adapt. (Probably as they didn't practice much) To me this could be somewhat counterproductive if they started in Grade 6 on a plastic trombone and then moved on to a brass one in Grade 8. The adaptation period be long and difficult and might diminish a students enthusiasm.