Vaughan Williams Tuba Concerto

[TinyTubist97]

I have been assigned this piece which was originally for bass tuba but I have to play it on contra bass. Any advice from previous experience on how I can play it or anything you've done to this piece to help make sound it better? I can play all of the notes so thats not an issue.

Any help would be appreciated!

[PMeuph]

Have you listened to some recordings?

There are plenty of great ones on Youtube... And even better on iTunes or Amazon....

[k001k47]

[tubalex]

Harvey Phillips brilliant recording of this work is available on Itunes and was recorded a CC tuba, almost certainly. He did EVERYTHING on his 4/4 CC contrabass tuba.

[tubagod94]

Hello!

I am working on that right now for college auditions! Since I am still some what new to the upper range of tuba, I am playing most of it down an octave then learning it and trying it up an octave. I will most likely be keeping a lot of it down an octave, but some parts of it doesn't sound right if you take it down an octave.

Hope this helps.

Nick Phillips.

[Mark]

I have been assigned this piece which was originally for bass tuba but I have to play it on contra bass. Any advice from previous experience on how I can play it or anything you've done to this piece to help make sound it better? I can play all of the notes so thats not an issue.

Any help would be appreciated!

Who assigned this to you and why did they assign it? Are you performing all three movements?

[PMeuph]

Hello!

I am working on that right now for college auditions! Since I am still some what new to the upper range of tuba, I am playing most of it down an octave then learning it and trying it up an octave. I will most likely be keeping a lot of it down an octave, but some parts of it doesn't sound right if you take it down an octave.

Hope this helps.

Nick Phillips.

I am sure that playing this piece down an octave is a not a good solution... Although this isn't the topic to discuss audition repertoire, I would still like to say. Unless you can really play this piece very well, don't even think about it... IMO, this is a great piece to audition to finish an undergrad degree with and to audition to Graduate school with.

[emcallaway]

I am playing most of it down an octave then learning it and trying it up an octave.

I think that this is a very pragmatic solution as you begin practicing a work like this one... It's sometimes important that you develop the idea of what you want to say in a register where you are most comfortable, so that you can transfer that same musical idea to the more foreign territory. "Let the lower octave teach the higher one, " as my teacher reminds me. Once you are comfortable playing it down the octave, try the upper octave. Once you know the tune inside and out the higher range should come surprisingly easy.

I cannot advocate performing this piece down the octave, but it is a great learning tool!

[Bob Kolada]

Listen to recordings, play it on the piano, LEARN how the high notes play and sound. The first movement's doable, but you have to get a sense of what high notes are like. Thankfully you play tuba and not trumpet so there's an excellent chance of being comfortable up high without massive lip trauma.

[TinyTubist97]

I can play the the piece well and my instructor assigned it to me I guess to get some exposure to famous concertos and I'm not going to switch pieces because I'm determined to play it. I am also going to hopefully audition for the interlochen world youth symphony summer thing with this piece, not so much because I know I will get the spot, but because the more I get used to these things now the easier it will be later on.

I'm really wondering maybe where NOT to take breaths or where it is a good place to breath other than rests. And some general things to make it and anything else I play more musical.
Thanks for all the feedback!

[ScottM]

If you can find the old recording with John Fletcher and the London Symphony it is my favorite. Mine is on LP but it might be available on cd or via I tunes. I haven't heard the Harvey Phillips recording but he was an great player and very musical.
Listen to the recordings but remember you have to make it yours to play it well. You will need to play it where it was written to sound right, especially if you are using it as an audition piece.
ScottM

[peter birch]

I am going to suggest that the one thing you don't want to do is listen to recordings of the concerto, Fletcher and Gourlay are great players, but the audition is looking for what you can make of the piece, not if you can copy a great players performance. After all, these recordings are made at the heights of a career, not at the beginning, and to appeal to critical listeners purchasing recordings, not to teachers looking for potential in students. If you can play it like John Fletcher or Harvey Phillips or Arnold Jacobs what could college possibly teach you?

[tuba.bobby]

I am going to suggest that the one thing you don't want to do is listen to recordings of the concerto, Fletcher and Gourlay are great players, but the audition is looking for what you can make of the piece, not if you can copy a great players performance. After all, these recordings are made at the heights of a career, not at the beginning, and to appeal to critical listeners purchasing recordings, not to teachers looking for potential in students. If you can play it like John Fletcher or Harvey Phillips or Arnold Jacobs what could college possibly teach you?

But then again how else can you develop your own good interpretation of the piece if you don't listen to various recordings? Listening to recordings give you an idea of who did this and who did that, just because you listen to a recording to give you ideas it doesn't mean you'll end up copying it exactly. Plus with many different recordings you can pick choose what you like about each interpretation to mould your own. If you just practiced and played a piece without any inspiration or guidance (from recordings and teachers alike), especially at a younger age, what's to say your interpretation wont end up as just a piece of *crap*.

[PMeuph]

I don't have any qualms about copying. Creativity is one of the very last skills that is mastered in a discipline.

Bach taught himself to compose by copying other composers' scores.
Jazz players learn to improvise by copying the greats' solos.
The vast majority of young classical musicians are spoon-fed phrasing by their teachers.

+1

[naplesbobT]

Rather than deal with specific performers (I believe we all have personal
favorites), my best advice would be: (1.)to select a small list of reputable giants
of our instrument (tuba), (2.)listen carefully to them on this great piece of literature, and possibly several others (Gregson, Broughton, Arutiunia, to begin).
(3.) select one or two of the performers, as your personal favorite. (4). Take
your copy of the concerto, and make another copy to work on. (5.) As you listen
to your favorite, make notes on your work copy, as to phrasing, breathe control,
particular things that made that one your favorite. Don't be afraid of taking, or copying those things that you see, or hear, as being good. Using a highlighter, mark things like meter, style, volumes, retards, accelerandos, areas that you see as either very difficult, or unplayable for you now, that you will have to concentrate on.
At this point you will see how dedicated you will have to be to really learn this piece.
You will see that (as others have said), to "Own this piece" you will have to pay
your dues. Time, application, dedication, interpretation, will gradually pay off.
As you make progress, work with your professor, he will give you insights that
will help make the piece more meaningful, and perhaps easier. That way you
will have a joint effort and perhaps build a real educational relationship that
may last you the rest of your life. Good Luck.

[peter birch]

I am going to suggest that the one thing you don't want to do is listen to recordings of the concerto, Fletcher and Gourlay are great players, but the audition is looking for what you can make of the piece, not if you can copy a great players performance. After all, these recordings are made at the heights of a career, not at the beginning, and to appeal to critical listeners purchasing recordings, not to teachers looking for potential in students. If you can play it like John Fletcher or Harvey Phillips or Arnold Jacobs what could college possibly teach you?

But then again how else can you develop your own good interpretation of the piece if you don't listen to various recordings? Listening to recordings give you an idea of who did this and who did that, just because you listen to a recording to give you ideas it doesn't mean you'll end up copying it exactly. Plus with many different recordings you can pick choose what you like about each interpretation to mould your own. If you just practiced and played a piece without any inspiration or guidance (from recordings and teachers alike), especially at a younger age, what's to say your interpretation wont end up as just a piece of *crap*.

this is all very well, but what will happen when you get a piece that is not recorded by a great player or not recorded at all? What I think I am really suggesting is that part of learning music is to develop the confidence to play the music as you read it and learn how to interpret it for yourself.

[Michael Bush]

In the arts, not just the tuba or music, imitation can be extremely valuable, but only if you do it reflectively. "This must be right because it's how Fletcher (or whoever) did it" is deadly.

But if you try to play it like Fletcher, and then you try to play it like Baadsvik, and then you ask yourself "How and why are these approaches different," you can learn things that will help you not only with this piece but in everything you do with a tuba. Do this enough, and you will make pleasing progress toward finding your own voice.

(Ahem... I wish Bloke would stick a recording of it on that music streaming site he uses sometimes, in light of his comment a while back that he sees this piece as comical. That would be interesting and educational listening, IMO.)

[Rick Denney]

this is all very well, but what will happen when you get a piece that is not recorded by a great player or not recorded at all? What I think I am really suggesting is that part of learning music is to develop the confidence to play the music as you read it and learn how to interpret it for yourself.

When you get to such a piece, then you must develop a fresh interpretation. At least your audience won't have preconceptions of what it should sound like.

But why do this with a piece that 1.) has been recorded many times, and 2.) has been heard many times by this student's critical listeners?

I put a quintet together once for a wedding, and we played some arrangements by the Canadian Brass. We were rehearsing one piece and at the end I suggested a particular phrasing because it's how the CB had done it with that work. One of the trumpet players suggested that we should do it our way. My response: When we can play it as well as the Canadian Brass, we will have earned the right to apply our own interpretation.

Part of preparation is knowing the literature, and that includes how others have interpreted it. Listen to the recordings of this work that are available, starting with Catelinet in 1953, Bell in 1954, Jacobs in the late 60's, Fletcher a bit later, and others more recently. It took a couple of performances of the work even for top professionals to find an interpretation that explored the potential of the work. That performance practice curve was pretty steep for the work's first 20 years. Should we ignore that experience?

Rick "whose advice to those who want to write well is to read lots" Denney

[Rick Denney]

(Ahem... I wish Bloke would stick a recording of it on that music streaming site he uses sometimes, in light of his comment a while back that he sees this piece as comical. That would be interesting and educational listening, IMO.)

The Bell recording from his 1954 performance with the Little Orchestra captures some aspect of the bouncy humor of this work. Hans Nickel in his recording does so as well.

Rick "offering a couple of good examples" Denney

[Michael Bush]

I haven't heard any comical performances.

Joe, a few weeks ago, there was a thread where you said you interpreted this piece yourself as something like comical. I could be remembering the exact adjective incorrectly, but it was something like that. Call it "lighthearted." That's in the right neighborhood anyway.

IIRC, you weren't talking about a performance you had "heard" but an interpretation you yourself had struck upon. I'm thinking you've got a digital file of yourself playing it. I'd be interested in what that sounds like. But it's not a big deal. If you don't want to put it out there it's fine. I've just been curious ever since you said that on here.