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Hi everyone,
I've had lots of questions about this horn since I bought it on eBay. Kiltietuba and Hattuba suggested I start a post on this unusual horn so that people that have had the chance to see it and play it can post their observations and opinions. I've been wanting to post some more/better shots of the horn but whenever I have a few spare minutes to take gome good pictures outside its either dark out or raining. I'll get this posting started with the eBay pic's then will add new pic's as I can.
I was picking up another horn after some repairs at Oberloh Woodwind & Brassworks a couple weeks ago. Daniel Oberloh said he'd like to see the Martin and Kiltietuba said be interested in seeing the horn and he'd bring along his jumbo sousaphones for me to drool on. Daniel felt that the horn had probably gone thru a "Factory" reconditioning program at sometime in it's past. Once upon a time Conn and other big production manufacturers would recondition any horn that came thru their doors. Daniel said that lots of older horns we're fixed up during the war since the manufacture of new brass instrumnets was not a priority. The horn's finish is satin silver but Daniel felt that the horn had bright silver accents on it when it was new. There is evidence of repair work in the top & bottom bows. The work is decent but Daniel pointed out that the work was probably done before the advent of the modern dent removal tools so there are still areas where you can see and feel where the metal was worked. Daniel commented on the engraving on the bell. The overall size of the logo is large but the engraving itself is very plain and simple, much less ornate the the York's and King's of the same era. We removed the linkage from the #3 valve, removed the cap, and then the valve. I'm guessing the valves are brass from their brownish color and they are hollow, not solid. Daniel said the valves and bearings aren't in bad shape considering the age of the horn but he felt there was plenty of room for improvement if the horn was being restored. Another area that could use attention was the bow caps. There are a few stress cracks present in the bow caps that are probably due to the horn being blasted prior to being refinished. Sandblasting causes the metal to expand and contract and since the cap won't shrink & grow at the same rate as the metal underneith a crack can occur. A new set of caps will be added if I ever have this horn restored. Daniel said the tube size is .716. The bell diameter is 20".
Daniel and Kiltietuba both played the horn and made some nice sounds with it. Paul, who works for Oberloh's, also played the horn and had a smile on his face when he put it down. I'll leave it up to these guys to post their opinions. I requested that they be frank about their feelings on the horn. I like the low range on this horn but this was one area on the horn that all three players thought was weak. Everyone felt this horn's strongest area is in the mid-range. The add on eBay gave the year of the horn as 1920. Daniel had a list of Martin serial numbers starting in 1917. By averaging the number of horns Marting produced from 1917 forward we're guessing that this horn was produced between 1912 and 1914. I plan on having the horn restored eventually but I'm enjoying the patina it has far too much to be in any hurry to have this one taken apart

Fine looking horn with a unique design. To me, this appears to be one which would be best left in 'original' condition. It looks pretty good in the photos. There is just something about a horn that is really old but still looks really good. A front view shows so many tubes, it looks like a pipe organ!

That's quite the horn! When you have a chance to take some pics, could you get one of the back of the horn, specifically the linkages/paddle assembly?

As much as I admire Dan's artistry, I would think this instrument does not need to be "restored". It is already in excellent condition and reveals its full experience without in any way looking battered. A ripple or two from a factory repair seems to me more interesting than an instrument that is made to look new. Have the valves repaired as needed so that they work quietly and properly, and do any work required to make the slides work the way they should, and then enjoy it.

It's unlikely those stress cracks on the bow guards have any importance in the grand scheme of things. I wouldn't think any repair at all would be needed unless one of them buzzes--you'll know that pretty quickly.

This is a unique and interesting tuba from a manufacturer known for instruments that play beautifully despite an unconventional configuration. Many big Martins had the slightly smaller bore than the usual 3/4", but are still revered for their wonderful big sound. There are tubas I would not mind attacking with a pair of pliers and a blow torch; this isn't one of them.

Rick "who doesn't mind that old tubas look old" Denney

Unless it was constructed poorly and has all sorts of hidden damage, poor-fitting parts, or leaky valves I wouldn't touch it either. Just my opinion!

Mtrhed wrote: I like the low range on this horn but this was one area on the horn that all three players thought was weak. Everyone felt this horn's strongest area is in the mid-range.

Interesting how this seems to be the case on MANY very large tubas.

The rotor spatulas and tension adjustable clockwork springs resemble Cerveny stuff. Cerveny also made rotors that disassemble the same way as your tuba, but all I've ever seen were front action.

Here's the sort of thing I'm talking about:

Yup, cool horn for sure. The images shown so far do present it in the best light possible. But for those of us who regularly are called on to service and repair such interesting instruments, there is more to it then meets the eye. The owner should be able to get use out of it as it curently sits but the issues that exist will eventually become a problem. For now, I told the owner, ''play and enjoy'', we can deal with its issues later. Here are a few pics of the back side of the rotor and linkage assembly. Cerveny, most probably the maker of the valves.

Daniel C. Oberloh
Oberloh Woodwind and Brass Works
http://www.oberloh.com

Thanks for the videos I never thought I would eavesdrop on a shop conversation for over 30 mins and not be bored. Very interesting the speaker knew a lot about the tuba and shared some of his stories and the tell tale shows that helped him put it's history together.

Did he ever elaborate on what he did not like about it's bottom end range as the owner liked it but he did not.

Is it going to overhauled or let rest for awhile?

I would totally take this horn apart and turn it so it was a 'left facing' horn. I'd love to hear the sound of this magnificent instrument!!!

Thanks for the feedback everyone,
   I’m with Daniel on this so far, I’m going to enjoy the horn as-is for awhile. I’m saving my shekels to have Mr. O and company do a functional overhaul on my B flat York #33. Once that is finished I’d be interested in getting the valves looked at on the Martin. I agree with Rick Denny, Bort, Bloke, and Big Ben above and will try to focus on getting the valves tight and leave the rest alone. These horns are only original once I’d like to preserve as much of their originality as possible while they’re under my care. Will they be perfect? Nope. Will the look like a really nice 100 year old tuba that plays great? Yup. The finish my not be factory correct but it’s been part of the horns history for some time so unless something really needs attention, who am I to alter it.
  I have a concert this weekend and hope to have time to give the horn a really good cleaning beforehand. I’ll take some photos of the linkage, valve casing from the front(the best I can) and of one of the valves while it’s out. Any suggestions as to what to lubricate the bearings with? Daniel felt that the valve was fashioned from tubing. I’m guessing they had the ports added in and then had the top and bottom capped? There is a series of photos on Oberloh’s site where they fabricated a valve for a French horn. I’m guessing the valves on the Martin were made the same way. I’ll provide basic external dimensions and a weight for those who are interested. I feel the horn is either a small 6/4 or very tubby 5/4. Upon arrival it was smaller than I had pictured. It’s pretty short and

Rick Denny above is correct about Martin Tubas. I've got a VERY old Martin sousaphone, made sometime in '27, and I love how it sounds. Much better than the '10 Cerveny parked right next to it.

When You find me dead ...You have to pry My Martin Hand Crafted Sousaphone out of my dead Hands..When you play this sousaphone with feeling it sounds like a fine Tuba being played.. Or maybe I am just the odd one and love playing sousaphones???

It's not just you, Harv! I enjoy playing good sousaphones and especially GREAT Martin sousaphones. I also enjoy my Conn 40K.

Leave it as it is!!! check the valve alignment and check the vales for leakage. The Horn is very cool ( you beat me on Ebay for it ) I have seen 3 other martin rotary valve horns all front action but with the valves turned like this one. The engraving is consistant with horns of the era. Many of the big horns had sparse engraving. I have never seen a Big Martin with detailed engraving. Although the valves look like Cerveny valves I was told that Martin did indeed make the rotary valves for these horns. The horns never were very well accepted and never went into full production. the lack of balls in the lower register is a trait common to the other rotary Martins I have played. I belive Mike lynch has one.

ray