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What is the concensus on using an EEb as an all around horn?

I have used both a CC and an F as my only horn in the past. I play professional work on a part time basis, to include a regional symphony orchestra on occasion, broadway show pit work, German band/polka gigs, and brass quintets for graduations and at various churches.

Can I do all of this on an EEb? Will I miss , or more importantly, will my colleagues significantly miss the breadth of tone produced by a CC tuba? I know many English tubists do it all on an EEb, but is this a good proposition in the USA?

You can do it all on EEb, wish I had learned that instead of F tuba. Pick the right horn and you will be fine. Unless you going to persue a major orchestral career, no one outside the tuba community will know the difference unless you tell them. Good Luck

I've thought about this many times. I feel the most comfortable on my Eb, hands down. I also play CC because it's expected especially since being in an university situation (orchestra/band). That said, unless I was playing in a large professional orchestra, I would feel 100% confident doing everything on my 2141, especially with some different mouthpieces. The bigger EEb's seem very viable as a do-it-all horn in my opinion. With large funnel mouthpiece, the 2141 doesn't sound much different than a lot of 4/4 CC tubas.

I own and use a 983 every day as my only horn and have been doing so for a number of years now. It fits very nicely with everything I do and I don't think I'll ever change that. With that said, I would like a larger horn on occasion but I certainly don't need it for my playing needs.

Doc wrote:

Chadtuba wrote: I certainly don't need it for my playing needs.

I'd love a BAT, but my disposable income does not supercede my needs.

And this is why I was unable to purchase Tundra's 345. He came and took it back yesterday, I was very sad

My Conn Monster Eb's work well in any ensemble from a large concert band to a quintet. There are times I'd like to have a big BBb for low register work in concert band, but otherwise I'll stick to Eb. Even though some adjustment has to be made for the quirks of the old Monsters, they put out a ton of sound when needed.

I played with what many people would consider the best amateur orchestra in the UK on Sunday (as a dep). Their bass trom player, who I'd never met before, told me after the rehearsal that he loved sitting next to a CC tuba player as the sound was so bigger and so different to the normal Eb tuba that he normally works alongside. When I told him that I WAS playing an Eb, although a rotary version, he nearly fell off his seat (not literally of course!).
That said, I heard the latest recording of the quintet I play in and I was somewhat disappointed that the sound WAS so big. I'd moved from a Besson 3+1 to a rotary Eb to get closer to the F tuba sound that I enjoy hearing so much but was had clearly not gone far enough away, or maybe even gone the other way.
Therefore it really depends what you're after. In my new friend's opinion my MW is a great orchestral tuba; in mine it's still not small enough to blend with the lower brass in the quintet (my main group). I could have bought a Starlight but it definitely didn't work in the orchestra for me, although fitted into the 5tet brilliantly. Perhaps it's impossible to say that 1 tuba can do all things for everyone, even an Eb. However in my limited experience they can do most things, which is probably more than you can say about bigger or smaller tubas.

I have been playing a Eb for close to 40 years now. My main groups are community band and church quintet. The Eb has been just fine for my needs. In orchestra situations, I wish at times I had a big BBb or very large CC. Those are rare situations for me. The Eb works very well in some of the higher passages and seems very flexible to allow me to solo, play cello parts, play just about anything in quintet, is great for jazz and fits well in band (I can even play upper parts) when there are a few other BBb players in the section. Yes, a good Eb can do it all, at least that is the case for me. Oh, you can also easily play most trumpet parts directly from the score when the need arrises.

Before my Army days, I went the Eb only route as well... It fit in great in the regional orcestra scene, brass quintet, dixie, and all the other various jobs that popped up... I used it as my only horn for my entire playing career in the Army as well... I've finally admitted, after two years in the case, that I'm a repair tech only... My horn is listed in the appropiate section of this site, and if you ever find yourself in the greater NYC area please feel free to drop by to take it for a spin!

I agree with Doc, but of course you have to choose an appropriate EEB.

Over the years I've discussed the use of the Boosey 3+1 EEb with the tuba players of the best London orchestras whenever they have visited Australia on tour. This list includes John Fletcher (LSO), John Jenkins (Philharmonia) and Lee Tsarmaklis (LPO). They have all told me that lugging a tuba around London (or on tour) was such a hassle they tended to choose the tuba that could do most things well. For them the best all-rounder was the EEb. It wasn't the best horn for each situation they might face, but they could do most things reasonably well on it.

None of them loved the EEb, Fletch called the 981 sound "Mothers Pride", an English make of bland white bread. Of course they all had a large CC tuba for the big stuff. When Lee was here a couple of years ago he was trialling a Yamayork which he has since bought, so he's using the EEb less these days.

For me, a good EEb is like an adjustable wrench - very useful if you want to take only one tool to the job, but not as satisfying to use as a set of the correct size tools.
If I was in your position I'd seriously consider a good EEb as an all-rounder, or the MW 2250 F tuba.

Good luck with your choosing!

Cam

A related question -- how would something like a Besson 983 work for orchestra in place of a German rotary F? I know the short answer is that they are both tubas and would both work.

But how would the sound colors compare, and would the Eb have significantly more "weight" to the sound?

I hate trying to write about qualities of sounds, so I hope this makes sense!

Thanks Doc! All very logical and makes sense!

I guess I need to refresh my memory on what the 983's sound like.

Another question based on my ignorance of EEb tubas -- is a 4-valve compensating EEb "enough valves" to play low enough for all the orchestral rep? That is, a 4-valve F is not sufficient, but is a 4-valve EEb doable?

PS, I know Pat Sheridan played on one for a very long time... but the playing he does and the playing I do are QUITE different.

is a 4-valve compensating EEb "enough valves" to play low enough for all the orchestral rep?

4 valve F tubas are almost always not compensating.

The compensating system allows the tuba to be fully chromatic down to the fundamental

What kind of sound do you want? A Firebird or B&S Symphonie sound different than a 983, for sure, but remember that you will sound like you no matter what. The color of the sound just depends on the type of filter (tuba) you play. Both can be made to play similarly to each other, but both are still different. What is your tone/color objective?

Good question. I really like the sound that John Fletcher got from his Besson 981 (982?). Although the front action ergonomics of the 983 appeal to me more. I guess I would choose the darker sounding of the two, if there is one.

Eb has been my principal tuba for my whole career. I love the term "adjustable wrench" for it. It CAN do everything. I've used it for solo, quintet, and with very large orchestras. I'm actually between Ebs right now and it's like an amputation! But they are the single most useful tool in an arsenal. There are many world-wide who, like me, take the 3+1 Eb when they don't know what to expect, or when there's a wide variety of literature. They can sing, dance, rock the roof, and and delicately peck off a high WTF note.

Yes, I own and F, a CC, a BBb, etc. But the Eb is the great center of my universe. Also, my vote is ALWAYS for the 3+1 comps... I feel strongly they are more dexterous (discussed many times before) physiologically.

J.c.S.

Doc wrote:4v F tubas cannot play all the notes, however 4v compensating EEb's can. I recently kicked the tires on a 983. It was a nice horn that played well. The pedal range was solid, including pedal E, and the comp fingerings were easy. Definitely worth trying if you're thinking about EEb.

Others you might consider:
Kanstul 66S
MW 2141 or 2040
Miraphone NorStar or Starlight
Willson 3400 (BIG EEb)
Miraphone Ambassador (BIG EEb)

The Miraphone NorStar and Starlight models look and sound like F tubas. The other models you listed are true Eb tubas.

Here is what an Eb tuba could and should sound like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsEpd0MH ... r_embedded

Fletch on his Besson 981 Eb. Notice the bite and depth he got out of that horn. Fletch probably had the deepest Eb sound I have heard.

The Fletch model IS a pain for corpulent folks - I can't play it. However, the 980 and the 981 have a 45 degree slanted body position rather than the snug position of the Fletch Model. It's actually esier for me (not slender) than the 983... but YMMV.

Even better with a tuba stand

J.c.S. (wishing a 980 would wander past...)

I would think the best all around, do all horn would be a 4/4 CC. Quintet, show, solo, orchstra, band. There are many players in the UK that make the EEb their do-all horn, but many of them learn on Eb and I just don't see that happening on this side of the pond.