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At times I like to play concert pitch tunes written in treble clef using an Eb. Trumpet parts also. Now I can't remember, add 3 flats to the key signature or subtract 3 flats... and then play as if written in base clef. So, which is it? Add or subtract

To play a transposed brass band treble clef part written for EEb tuba you pretend it's in bass clef and add three flats.

This means that a part written in C major in treble clef will actually sound in Eb major.

This also works in reverse - a brass band treble clef reading EEb player can play a normal concert pitch bass clef part by pretending that it's in treble clef and subtracting three flats.

If you want to play a treble clef concert pitch part and have it sound in the written key then that is a different matter.

Regards

Gerard

Similar question:

I keep forgetting how to do the "trumpet trick" i.e. giving a trumpet player an Eb horn, tell 'em to use trumpet fingerings, read the bass clef music as treble clef and add 'how many' sharps to the key signature.

Jeff "And sometimes I forget how to tie my shoes" Benedict

I think Termite really answered that...

drop three flats (or add 3 sharps) and read the BC like it's TC.

Thanks. Sometimes I make simple things so hard...

Thanks for the help with my memory. It also follows that if you are playing an Eb tuba and are asked to play a trumpet part written in treble clef you just add 1 flat and pretend it is base clef. This is because the trumpet part is is not written in concert pitch but in has the 2 flats already built in.

opus37 wrote:Thanks for the help with my memory. It also follows that if you are playing an Eb tuba and are asked to play a trumpet part written in treble clef you just add 1 flat and pretend it is base clef. This is because the trumpet part is is not written in concert pitch but in has the 2 flats already built in.

That won't work. If you're reading a Bb trumpet part in treble clef, the written C below the staff is supposed to sound a concert Bb. If you're playing an Eb tuba, and pretend it's bass clef, it doesn't matter how many flats you add or subtract, you'll end up playing a concert Eb. To play trumpet parts, you need to read it up a fifth (or down a fourth), and add two flats (if you want to pretend it's bass clef).

pretend it's in bass clef and add three flats.

OK, but which flats... Eb, Bb,Ab (as they would appear in bass clef)?

What about the sharps and flats that may already be in the key signature?

Just add 3 flats to whatever's in the key sig (to go from BC to BbTC). Actually, I originally learned Eb tuba, and I have found the relationship really useful for reading Eb sax parts on trombone or tuba and for reading british band tuba parts on BBb. It works because they make the fundamental sound as "C" concert. . . and BC Eb is on the same staff position as TC C.

To learn concert pitch stuff on an Eb horn, it's best to just learn the notes. It won't take long.

sailn2ba wrote:Just add 3 flats to whatever's in the key sig (to go from BC to BbTC). Actually, I originally learned Eb tuba, and I have found the relationship really useful for reading Eb sax parts on trombone or tuba and for reading british band tuba parts on BBb. It works because they make the fundamental sound as "C" concert. . . and BC Eb is on the same staff position as TC C.

That only works if the TC part is transposed for an Eb instrument. On an alto saxophone, a written C sounds a concert Eb, and is in the same position as Eb on the bass clef staff. When you're dealing with a TC part written for a Bb instrument (trumpet, clarinets, tenor sax), it doesn't work. The written C will sound as a concert Bb. To make it work, you pretend it's bass clef, and two flats, and read it up a fifth/down a fourth.*

Trust me, I do this kinda stuff every day as a band director. If you really wanna hurt your brain, try figuring out how to read F Horn parts on Eb tuba. Ow.

*or, you do what Bob said, and just learn to read treble clef concert pitch fingerings. That way, you only have to read trumpet parts down a whole step.

Tortuba wrote:

pretend it's in bass clef and add three flats.

OK, but which flats... Eb, Bb,Ab (as they would appear in bass clef)?

What about the sharps and flats that may already be in the key signature?

Huh?

You add the flats in the normal order... Bb, Eb, Ab (if there are no flats or sharps there already). As far as what to do if there are #'s in the key signature, think of it as adding them algebraically. If there are 4 sharps in the key adding 3 flats will yield 1 sharp (+4 -3 = +1). If there are 2 flats there already, adding 3 flats yields will give you 5 flats.

But... be careful of accidentals

While the discussion is so great, please help a friend who has only played Bb trombone (bass clef) and F Horn (treble clef) but who wants to read start reading concert bass clef on an F tuba for TubaChristmas.

Dean E wrote:While the discussion is so great, please help a friend who has only played Bb trombone (bass clef) and F Horn (treble clef) but who wants to read start reading concert bass clef on an F tuba for TubaChristmas.

Get a fingering chart. Write in fingerings as needed. Honesty, it'll be WAY easier to just learn new fingerings than trying to devise a "trick".