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The only one I've played of those the rotary Neptune. The few I've played haven't seemed colossally huge sounding, but they did play very nice and had a clear, rich sound. In the 6/4 rotary tuba range, I like it more than the Fafner and that 6/4 Miraphone Bb (though I've only played one of those). It also had very nice false tones so you can play pp low range stuff without having to blow 30 feet of tubing. Eb was particularly resonant. Charming horns; when I see one for a good price (as they are always!) I can't help but consider it even though I'm a bass tuba guy and favor Bb's for contrabass work. I do think if designed and built as a Bb that style would -really- shine!
The Bruckner and Tuono are nice; I don't care much for the PT6 (piston particularly) or the Thor (not listed above anyways). In my limited time on a Bruckner, I found it to be one of those rare horns that really matches up a Bb sound with a shorter instrument's playability. I still like and prefer (for several reasons) the 191, but the Bruckner is a bit more polished. On the other hand, the 191 is, for me, THE epitome of SOUUNNNND and is still the bargain 5/4 to beat. Hell, I've even seen a clean one for 3000! Neptunes have got to be the bargain 5 valve BAT.

I LOVE my Willson 3050. Best LARGE rotary I've ever played. It plays and sounds bigger than the PT6's I've played. Plays WAY larger than the Bruckner, or HB2. I'd call the Bruckner a MAT, medium-assed tuba.

I agree Tony, the Bruckner is a large 4/4 or small 5/4 horn. The sound is much different than a BAT. That being said, I think it gives one who wants the velvety deepness of a BAT and the articulation of a 186 or 188 a nice mid-point.

You should also "Czech" out the Cerveny Kaiser tubas. I've tried a few, and they are fun as hell. There is (was?) a very slightly used one for sale here in the $4k range. Looks cool!

Hi-
The 601 CC 5/4 tubas have a body like a 5/4 Rudi. Yes, the new ones and the old ones (ESP. Those with the 18" bell!!) can be played without a tuning slide trigger with some modifications-HIGHLY recommended.....
Mark

The Rudy sound great, but really suck the air, the 190 is more German Kaiser sounding in my opinion.

The Neptune is without doubt the best rotary BAT you can buy!

I am very happy with my Alex 164. I liked every 190 I've played too. I was neutral to the Rudy 5/4 I played, but again, I have played only one or two of each of the above. My tastes may not be like your tastes.

Joe, the Cerveny CC Kaisers that I've tried were acceptably in-tune instruments. Maybe a bit of adjusting with the 1st or 4th slides (it was a 4-valve tuba), but certainly better than some other tubas I've tried. It did seem to require a TON of air though, which was tiring. But at the same time, it would also accept a TON of air.

The Miraphone 190 I tried last year didn't work for me at all, it really seemed like a dud... but in all fairness, I think it's something that's simply not a point-and-shoot tuba like the smaller Miraphones. Maybe with some good practice time, it would be a fine tuba, but it wasn't a good match for my needs.

I know they are special order, and I personally only know of 2 that exist. But if you ever get the chance to play a rotary version of the 2165, it is outstanding. I am a rudy lover when it comes to BAT's, but the 2165 that I was able to play was unlike anything I have ever played. I can't remember the guys name, but the photo of one of them has appeared on the net before. It plays just as huge as it looks....

I know you said CC in the start of the thread, but the best rotary BAT I've played to date is the Miraphone Siegfried prototype I played at MidWest last December. Just a fabulous horn. Didn't suck air, very even in all registers. Pleasing to the eye, easy to hold, balanced, great colors. If I were in the market for a rotary BAT, this would be my first stop. It has a resonant quality I found very, very similar to my 6/4 Martin, which is the primary characteristic I love about my Martin, so that may be a reason I fell in love with it.

LJV wrote:THere was pic of a 2165R on the old Dutch tuba pic site, but the site is now gone. I wonder if Klaus has a copy...?

Here is link to picture of the 2165Z with József Bazsinka of the Budapest Festival Orchestra for whom it was made. I heard and saw the instrument at the BBC Proms in London this year - sounded really great. Would love to try and compare with Neptune!

LJV wrote:Thanks for posting that! Very cool. If you ever have the chance to play it against the Neptune, be sure to report back!

József told me he has had the tuba for 20 years and it plays superb. I just wonder why Meinl-Weston never put the rotary 2165z into production - and if they would make another to order?

tclements wrote:I LOVE my Willson 3050. Best LARGE rotary I've ever played. It plays and sounds bigger than the PT6's I've played. Plays WAY larger than the Bruckner, or HB2. I'd call the Bruckner a MAT, medium-assed tuba.

Also the BBb version 3100 RZ-4 is a great sounding instrument.
Very BIG sound !!
(but man, it's heavy)

My Alex.

Karl "who was reminded of this fact whilst playing a wonderful brass choir concert last week" H.

How about a PT-7? I played one when Jeff Rideout came through town on the way back from Texas. Interesting tuba.

bloke wrote:Without me googling a picture and squinting, is the Neptune (and approximate piston-version PT-7) a 3-loop or a 4-loop tuba?

No need to squint at this one:
http://www.tubaexchange.com/productimgs ... 1452-2.JPG

Or this one:
http://www.octobone.com/tuba2.jpg

3?

The rotary Neptune is a 3 loop tuba.

As far as I know the PT-7 has only ever been available in piston version

bloke wrote:

Neptune wrote:The rotary Neptune is a 3 loop tuba.

As far as I know the PT-7 has only ever been available in piston version

I've always been under the impression that the "PT-7" is/was - in reality - a piston-valve Neptune...(??)

I did have an opportunity a couple of years back to play/examine a PT-7 and piston Neptune side by side. They seemed to me to be basically the same tubas, with the only differences being;

1) Bell size slightly larger on the Neptune (520mm against 500mm)
2) Slightly different routing of 1st valve loop on PT-7
3) Different engravings and gold lacquer on Neptune

They played much alike, with slightly broader tone from the Neptune - but so slight that I don't think it would be noticeable if played apart.

bloke wrote:

TheHatTuba wrote:What are some of the good CC BART's on the market? I know of the Neptune, Mira 190, and the Rudy 5/4 but that's all I know of. I know of the Tuono, Bruckner, and PT-6 but those seem closer to large rather than BAT.

Having played all three (including a recent-production 190, which is much better than the very old ones), I would choose the first of the three if I did not play it every day. If I DID play it every day, I would probably pick the third one (ie. much more work, but slightly more results). If you're most important criteria, though, is VERY FAST valves, you should select the second of your three choices.

IMHO ^^^^^^^^^ this^^^^^^^^^nails it.

When I play my Rudy daily it is the greatest thing on earth. However, when I am without it for a period of time (such as being on a band tour for 31 days with another horn) it is the most foreign thing on earth when I start playing it again.

If one plays daily I find it hard to believe that there is a better large ensemble tuba than the 5/4 CC Rudy RM-50. It has the biggest, darkest sound of any instrument I have ever played. I love it so much that I am hafazzed thinking about selling mine and buying a brand new blinged-out one with red brass. The one Lee had at the Army conference a few years back was the best looking tuba I have ever seen. All I need is about $21,000. They are expeeeeensive.