Mike TUba wrote:still trying to decided what BBb tuba i would like to buy for about $3000-$4000. so what do people think about the St.Petersburg 202N...
A little history will provide some context for what others have said:
When the USSR collapsed, many of the former Soviet industries starting marketing their products in the West in the hopes of surviving commercially. This is true for all sorts of products--I currently have a collection of Ukrainian and Russian cameras and lenses.
Generally, the Russian design capabilities were pretty good. Production facilities were old-fashioned, but usable. Styling was a joke. But the worst thing about their approach was that there was no mechanism for rewarding quality. Thus, the quality control was abysmal, and if it is improving, it is doing so slowly.
After the fall of the Soviet Union, a fellow in Germany made a deal with the St. Petersburg tuba factory for a large batch of instruments. He sold them on the internet for about $1000. He would also have a German company replace the valve linkages (all of it, not just the S-link parts), and that would raise the price to $1500. Many adults bought them because they were so affordable. Some schools bought them, too, for the same reason.
They were a good deal at that price. But the machining was not consistent from one to the next, so spare parts often have to be machine or duplicated to actually work. The nickel plating (for the plated models) was funky. The brass was very soft, having been annealed much later in the process and therefore having little work hardening, so they dented quite easily.
Because the design wasn't that bad, the good ones actually played reasonably well. I've played two, and didn't have any real complaints. They attracted a small cult following because of that (emphasis on the word "small"). The following was loyal to the low price as much as to the good design, with the lousy production values being the trade-off.
A little later, they were picked up by Tuba Exchange, who upgrades the valve linkages and perhaps a few other things, and who apparently worked with the factory to institute other improvements.
My problem with them currently is price. I think for what you get, they are priced too high. Others have bought them at that price and been happy, so clearly my opinion is not universal.
In your price range, you could get a used Miraphone 186 in excellent condition or a new King 2341. Both would be hard to beat in the Bb world at any price for a returning adult. There are other new instruments in that price range, too, including the VMI 2103 and its variants. These are good instruments, both better made and more consistent than the St. Petersburg.
For the curious, I paid $500 for a Ukrainian medium-format camera kit similar (in appearance and function but not in quality) to a Hasselblad. At $500, it's a good deal (the equivalent Hasselblad kit would be about $4000 or more). If you don't want the usual list of needed ex-factory upgrades, you can find them for half that. They are funky, quirky, inconsistent, and sometimes unreliable, but capable of making world-class images. There is one dealer in the U.S. who is importing these, and they apply their own "special" improvements (whatever those are) them and sell them for about $1200. Nobody I know who collects these carefully has bought one at that price. Does this sound familiar? The parallels to the tuba world are striking.
Think of the St. Petersburg as being like a Cerveny, only moreso. At least Cerveny had some sort of tradition of excellence, even though it is only a distant memory, to help them to produce some good products today. St. Petersburg is having to develop that sense of quality from scratch.
Personally, I think the Chinese will get there first (and they probably already have).
Rick "who has owned three tubas made in the second world, a Cerveny, a VMI, and a B&S" Denney