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trying to decide if it is logical to purchase a miraphone 191?????? Have a cerveny 686,2 yrs old ,nice horn. AMATEUR, only play for fun with a local community college band.63 yrs old. Have the means to do this however,not the point. Is it DUMB !!!! Is it that much better of a horn for what I need? Would someone compare the horns for size, air consumption,sound ect.Hope this does not sound too grade school, would like someone in the knows opinion.THANKS jds

I've not yet been able to see the sense of paying for a big time professional tuba to use in community band and church. Once in a while I'm tempted, as I take it you are. (And was really quite seriously tempted recently by Mitch's crazy huge Gnagey/Martin in the FS section.) But does what I do with a tuba really justify dropping $6500 on one? Not so far. I want it, but think I'd feel a little foolish once it was done.

So far I've talked myself away from the edge with the recognition that I'm not at a place in my playing where the instrument is what is holding me back. As a golf pro said to me once when I was talking about buying some fancy new irons, "The sticks are not the problem."

FWIW. Obviously your situation may be quite different from mine.

If the money isn't the problem, I say buy one, try it, and if you don't like it then sell it. Maybe you can even buy one and get a trial period to decide.

You only go around once, do it while you can!

I have always liked the Cerveny 686 for what it is, a competent, reasonably priced tuba. If you are considering something else then you should ask yourself why. Is there something about the sound, intonation, or playing feel of your current instrument with which you are not happy? I have played and owned a lot of tubas as an amateur, and there isn't enough difference between most of them to make a difference in just about any amateur ensemble. I have liked the 191's that I have played, but I prefer the 1291, which is the piston valve version. I considered trading my King 2341 for a Miraphone 1291 a number of years ago, but decided that for the playing that I do it really wasn't worth it, and that is the point. I decided that while I liked the way the Miraphone played, the sound wasn't different enough to justify trading in my horn.

As for a direct comparison of the two horns you have mentioned, the Miraphone 191 is a shorter horn with a more open wrap a larger bell and bore than the Cerveny and in my opinion projects a little better and has a more open feel. Because of the larger bore it can feel like it takes more air, although frankly that is a matter of getting used to how to play it. I think that Joe probably had the best advice when he suggested that you take some time to try out as many different horns as you can and try to find the one that has the characteristics that you seem to be missing in your current horn.

There used to be a rather odd video on youtube of a guy playing Czardas on a 4 valve 191. I say odd as the video looks pretty posh and the playing is solid, but the video and audio are out of sync and he makes a few weird mistakes.

I can't find it now. The guy was sitting on a piano bench on stage and I remember it to be filmed in another country than the US. Anyone remember this? Tuba and Czardas isn't finding it, neither is Miraphone tuba. If you can find it, it's a sweet representation of the sound and low range of these things.

I played a 191 for a while in college (i'm about to grad with communications degree) and i liked the big sound of the horn, especially the low range. however; it's hard as heck to tune on some notes. it may have just been me though.

Hmm! I'm not sure what logic has to do with a choice like this. You obviously crave a 191 and apparently can afford it. Get it . . . or shop a bit. Take some one with you and see if you sound better on it
I personally tried both at the same same time and settled on the Cerv 686 with 5 valves. I thought the 686 sounded as good (as I played 'em) and it was easier to handle. I must admit that I was a bit cost-conscious too.

Hmmmmmm

I am only an amateur player and have a 1291 BBb (5 valves). I would go out of my tiny mind if I had anything less. I haven't played the Cerveny but I suspect that it would play better than what I had access to prior to getting my Miraphone so some of what follows may not apply as much in your situation.

From what someone else said you may find that the 191 plays bigger and projects more in a large ensemble situation in a large hall. You would need to play both back to back in this situation and get feedback from someone in the audience to find out. Or record the whole thing and listen back.

When I play a smaller BBb and then the 1291 in my living room the difference is not as apparent as when playing in a large ensemble in a larger space. When I play the 1291 at rehearsal after playing something smaller you can tell from the first note that it blows the other horn away.

Someone mentioned tuning on the 191 - I use a few alternative fingerings and slide pulls on my 1291 but I find it easy and intuitive to do this. The 1291 is very well set up with all five valve slides under the left hand. I think they may be harder to reach on the 191.

The 1291 speaks like nothing else I've ever played in the low register.

I have problems with the "you don't need a better tuba, you just need to practice more" line of thought. Yes, if you can't play, then a better tuba won't make you sound any better to the audience. However, that is not the whole story.

I also have major problems with the “if you learn on rubbish equipment that doesn’t work you’ll perform so much better on decent equipment” line of thought.
The reason for this is very simple – you won’t be able to learn on crap equipment, you’ll struggle for a little while, get nowhere and give up.

And - this will ruffle a few peoples feathers - getting a better instrument can help you to improve - note how I worded that.

Your brain is not operating in a vacuum disconnected from the instrument. When you blow an instrument and it doesn't respond very well your brain responds by changing what you're doing in an attempt to get a better result. If you started off blowing fairly well then this is a problem.

When you play a tuba that feels really good to play and responds the way it should, you will then respond to that and the whole thing will build. The tubas I was playing before my 1291 were definitely holding me back. I didn't start to develop a real tuba sound until I'd had the Miraphone for a while and now I can go back to lesser instruments and get the same sound (almost).
This also applies to woodworking – you will NEVER learn to use a hand plane with an incorrectly set up tool that doesn’t work properly.
When I used to teach clarinet and saxophone most of my students had pretty lousy instruments and mouthpieces. I would sometimes get them to play my clarinet for a few minutes and they would sound much better when they went back to their own instrument.

How good a tuba does the amateur player need?
When you do something for a hobby the prime consideration is your personal enjoyment.
I can’t stand playing crap instruments - I feel no need whatsoever to punish myself by playing something which feels lousy just because "a great player can make anything sound good, so go practice".


If you feel that you will get more out of your tuba playing with a different tuba then go for it – life is very short. (But play the 191 and Cerveny back to back with someone else listening and try out some other higher end BBb's as well although they will mostly be dearer than the 191).

Regards

Gerard

If you have played it already and still want it, it's worth it. If you are still shopping, there are great small horns that are going wanting while others trade up for more metal...

No one, of course, has said in this thread that OP needs to buy a tuba at a low price point, or that he needs to practice more, or that he should buy a piece of rubbish. So it looks like there might be a paper tiger or two cropping up.