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what horns did he play with lso ... i was under the impression he always used an Eb...where are some pictures of him with some horns??

USStuba04 wrote:what horns did he play with lso ... i was under the impression he always used an Eb...where are some pictures of him with some horns??

In addition to the Besson EEb that was his main instrument, he also played a Holton CC-345 for big works. And I'm sure he had others--most pros seem to have a collection, and some of us amateurs are even worse.

Rick "who seems to recall something about that Holton ending up in Mel Culbertson's hands" Denney

Jonathantuba wrote:John Fletcher is as legendary to British tuba players as Arnold Jacobs is to Americans. He really introduced the EEb and CC tubas to British orchestra's. Before him all British orchestral tuba players used F tubas. Nowadays most professional orchestral players have a CC tuba for contrabass tuba parts, with the EEb tuba used otherwise.

I would recommend an excellent book on John Fletcher for anyone interested. It is call "John Fletcher - Tuba Extraordinary" and is published by the John Fletcher Trust (proceeds going to support young brass players). I believe it costs £12. There is also a CD produced by the Trust of him playing with a variety of groups - "The Best of Fletch" (£10?). I obtained my copies from Phil Parker of London http://www.philparker.co.uk

"J.T.",

Thanks for your very informative posts in this thread. I do have "The Best of Fletch", btw, and it's an enjoyable CD, well worth the purchase price. It is available here in the US, as well, but someone else will have to post the sellers, as I don't remember who I bought it from.

I've always wanted to ask this next question: What are the significant differences between the Besson Imperial and Besson Sovereign EEb tubas? (The model John Fletcher played, and the one you play?)

Cheers,

I recall a picture in the first edition of Bevan's Tuba Family showing George Wall playing a BBb Alex 164. This was clearly for orchestral use. What I don't know is when the picture was taken. There was also a picture of Mr. Wall playing a Barlow-style F tuba on stage as perhaps a 20-year-old, dressed in the style of about 1960. Judging from the beard in the later picture, which would not have been in style before the 70's, from his apparent age, and from the publication of the book (1978), I figure the picture was taken in the early 70's. In what orchestra did Mr. Wall play at the time?

When did Fletcher introduce the Holton? Barry, you may be able to tell us from the discography. What's the recording date of the earliest recording on which you hear the BAT sound?

My curiosity is purely historical, but I wonder if George Wall was following behind John Fletcher's lead, or if he was making his own statement in parallel. The Alex kaisertuba would have made a truly commanding sound, of a different quality than the Holton, but unlikely to blend with pea-shooter trombones and weak basses any better.

There was also a picture in Bevan of John Elliott playing a Besson 981 Sovereign (with 19" bell) at Covent Garden.

My Besson euphonium dates from 1974, and has no model name but is apparently a New Standard. It has the large mouthpiece receiver like the Sovereign. By visual inspection, the Sovereign differs only in the presence of some additional water keys. The bell may be slightly larger--I don't recall. But I know that the introduction of the Eb Sovereign did not happen at the same time as the euphonium Sovereign.

Rick "who seems to recall that Fletcher had a role in introducing the 19" bell to the 981" Denney

barry guerrero wrote:I want to bring up one other thing. John Fletcher mentioned that he didn't care for Boosey's CC tubas - the old ones that looked like a cut down verion of the 3 + 1 BBb's. I think that many of them had severe tuning problems. But the previous player in the LPO used to use one of those, and it seemed to blend into that orchestra quite well. I heard them do Mahler 2 under Klaus Tennstedt at RFH, and it was fabulous. The tuba player, who's name I can't remember, sounded very good as well. He was using that instrument.

Barry Guerrero

Barry, I seem to remember that JF said it was the Boosey BBb's that he didn't care for. The CC that you refer to in the LPO was made for a guy called Paul Lawrence and is, as you say, a cut down version of the 3 + 1 BBb's. I have a photo of it in Sounding Brass magazine dated Summer 1980. It has the Besson New Standard finger buttons on it but I can't see the name on the bell to tell if it was stamped Boosey & Hawkes 'Imperial' or Besson 'New Standard'.

Incidentally, Sovereign tubas were introduced in the early 1980's.
Imperials, for the mass market, were given 19" bells in the late 1970's. I bought one in 1980.

There were some 19" bell instruments kicking around during the 1970's but they must have been to special order or something as the only ones I saw in use were being played in orchestras by John Fletcher, John Jenkins etc. Fletchers generally had a straight lead pipe while Jenkins had a curved one. I have pictures of John Jenkins instrument and this is branded Besson 'New Standard'. Our college bought one of these from Scottish Opera or somewhere and this was also branded Besson 'New Standard' if I remember rightly.

Rick Denney wrote:There was also a picture in Bevan of John Elliott playing a Besson 981 Sovereign (with 19" bell) at Covent Garden.

Would you allow me to correct you on this one, please.

In the picture you refer to, John Elliott is actually playing a Besson 'New Standard' with 19" bell of the type I have just referred to above. In all likelyhood, he's using a Bach 24AW with the shank filed down to fit the smaller receiver that was fitted to B&H Imperial and Besson New Standard EEb's & BBb's.
The larger receiver was introduced for the Sovereigns, thank heavens!

Woops, I made the same post twice and, now that someone has replied, the only thing I can do is remove the duplication and replace with this message!

Jonathantuba wrote:

WorldofBrass.com wrote:The CC that you refer to in the LPO was made for a guy called Paul Lawrence and is, as you say, a cut down version of the 3 + 1 BBb's. I have a photo of it in Sounding Brass magazine dated Summer 1980. It has the Besson New Standard finger buttons on it but I can't see the name on the bell to tell if it was stamped Boosey & Hawkes 'Imperial' or Besson 'New Standard'.

Any chance of scanning the photo and putting up here? That would be interesting.

I'll see what I can do on Monday when I'll attempt to use the scanner at work.

John Fletcher was one of a kind - one of the world's greatest tubists and a fine gentleman. He has been missed.

A few years ago I started putting bios of great brass players on my web site. I was searching for a bio of John Fletcher for a long time. Finally a few weeks ago Steve Shoop sent me a bio. I just put it on my web page located at http://www.windsongpress.com/brass%20pl ... etcher.htm .

I am lucky as one of my horns is a "Fletcher" model Besson E flat. What makes this horn special is that John Fletcher chose this horn for Arnold Jacobs. I always think of Fletch every time I play it!

Discussion of the EEb tuba often morphs into a comparison of the EEb/ CC instruments. I have attended a few concerts in London, and have heard enough players there (I think) to have an opinion on the national style. I saw mostly EEb's as the instrument of choice and those players can blow the roof off,
if they have to/want too. They just choose not to do it all the time.

Jonathantuba wrote:

WorldofBrass.com wrote:The CC that you refer to in the LPO was made for a guy called Paul Lawrence and is, as you say, a cut down version of the 3 + 1 BBb's. I have a photo of it in Sounding Brass magazine dated Summer 1980. It has the Besson New Standard finger buttons on it but I can't see the name on the bell to tell if it was stamped Boosey & Hawkes 'Imperial' or Besson 'New Standard'.

Any chance of scanning the photo and putting up here? That would be interesting.

Here is is.