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In comparison to other F tubas on the market, how big is the Firebird? Miraphone lists it as a ""5/4'" (the same designation as the 181), but that seems VERY generous...

It SEEMS a bit smallet to me than the 181's....

I always thought it to be a good normal sized F tuba. Not small, not huge.

4/4. But I'm not sure that any company has an F that they consider to be 4/4. The Firebird at least feels like a 4/4 to me.

It's a good deal squatter than the B&S F's, and after the tuning slide, the Firebird's branches are a bit smaller in diameter than B&S's. Not as "chunky."

I've most commonly heard the Firebird described as a 4/4 tuba, but what does that even mean when it comes to F tubas? I mean, the MW 45/46 models are described by Meinl-Weston as "6/4," but the outer branches' diameter are about on-par with the Firebird, maybe a hair bigger, and definitely not on-par with the 45SLP, which they also describe as "6/4." Maybe when manufacturers describe F tubas in a quarter system, they look at how tall the tuba is, vs. the diameter of the bows? Or maybe it's all marketing, who knows?

arpthark "wondering"

Well, yes -- it is "all marketing". There are no official standards -- it is what the manufacturer says it is. (see Rudolf Meinl) On the other hand, MW *do* label one of their F tuba models as a 4/4:

http://www.meinlweston.com/melton-meinl ... 2-253.html

... and another model as a 3/4:

http://www.meinlweston.com/melton-meinl ... 2-247.html

What does it all add up to? * "Only the Shadow knows ..."

* sorry, having an R. Crumb moment: "Mr. Natural -- what does it all mean?"

I've played both, and would list the Firebird as a medium- small F tuba. It carries well over a group when used in a solo capacity. I found it to be not as good of a fit( for me, mind you, your experience may be different) in tuba- euphonium quartet as my 181. The 181 has more weight to the sound to stand up to the 2 euphoniums in the group and blend with the 2nd tuba when required. I would consider a 181 to be a standard size german rotary F, very close in dimensions to the MW 45/ 46 family and the B&S PT 10/11/ 15/ 16 family. If you get a chance to try them side by side, the difference will be clear. The Firebird plays like a dream, a soloists dream. The 181, while a bit more work is required in the intonation department (soon to be fixed in the upcoming 181 Bel Canto, I understand), suits me better for what I use F tuba for the most, which is quartet performance. My 2 cents...
JC