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I was wondering when pedal tones officially start on a BBb tuba. So in other words, what is the highest pedal tone you can play?

The octave below low BBb. This is called the first partial. Every note played in first partial or below is a pedal note, on any instrument. Even if those trumpet players call those false tones from g to c "pedals" they are not.

Well, technically, all those notes ARE in the first partial...the first partial for whatever tube length you have. BBBb (8va below the below-two-leger-lines) is an 18' pipe fundamental. Throw the 2nd valve down, you have a longer pipe, and are playing the fundamental on that length pipe. Etc.

But, yeah. What Wes said.

....

bloke wrote:My tuba doesn't have any pedals. It only has buttons.

The octave below low BBb. This is called the first partial.

I believe this is referred to as the fundamental. I thought the first partial on a BBb tuba was low BBb.

Mojo workin' wrote:

The octave below low BBb. This is called the first partial.

I believe this is referred to as the fundamental. I thought the first partial on a BBb tuba was low BBb.

Negatory Batman....

5th and 7th partial are the flat partials. That would be d and ab, so the partials would look like this...

Bb - 1
Bb - 2
F- 3
Bb- 4
D- 5
F- 6
Ab- 7

Otherwise you'd be saying high Bb is the flat partial.

ShoelessWes wrote:

Mojo workin' wrote:

The octave below low BBb. This is called the first partial.

I believe this is referred to as the fundamental. I thought the first partial on a BBb tuba was low BBb.

Negatory Batman....

5th and 7th partial are the flat partials. That would be d and ab, so the partials would look like this...

Bb - 1
Bb - 2
F- 3
Bb- 4
D- 5
F- 6
Ab- 7

Otherwise you'd be saying high Bb is the flat partial.

Yes, no argument here. Upon further reading, I see that the fundamental IS a partial. This confirms what you are saying.

Why are you saying that the false tones on BBb tuba from low Eb to B, above the fundamental, are not pedal tones?

"fundamental" refers to the (ideal) harmonic sequence.

"partial" refers to the actual resonances produced by the particular instrument.

Instrument designers work RealHard to make the instrument's partials match a harmonic sequence. They don't (can't?) succeed completely with a bugle that is partly conical and partly cylindrical. In the case of most brass instruments, the basic bugle has one set of partials (more or less matching one harmonic sequence.) And then...the addition of first the bell and then the mouthpiece modifies those partials so that they (more or less) match a *different* harmonic sequence.

This is an exercise in compromise, and pushing the errors into the corners. In most designs, the solution turns out to mean that there is no "partial" that corresponds to the "fundamental" of the harmonic sequence advertised as the "pitch" of the instrument. 2nd, 3rd, 4th... partials are usually a good match with the 2nd, 3rd, 4th harmonics - but there is no resonance providing a "slot" for the fundamental. If you can play the fundamental on a tuba, you can probably play it on a sewer pipe - it's all in your lips. And perhaps your ears (hearing the 2nd, 3rd, 4th harmonics will convince you that the fundamental *must* be there). And...if you manage to excite the 2nd, 3rd, 4th,... harmonics then there actually *is* some of the fundamental in the resulting sound - but the instrument didn't help you produce that fundamental by providing a partial.

That's the short version. The long version is 500 pages... Our Resident Genius can supply the references, if he so chooses.

Just in time for January - if the Quarterdeck will install a whiteboard, Rick and I can lead a discussion session over crab cakes.

When I was a student we called it the Fundamental and Overtones, or the Harmonic Sequence. The Pedal note is the same as the Fundamental. I would hear of counting partials and and always preferred the note itself to be named. Such as "try playing that third line D 1 and 2 instead of open".

GC wrote:Why are you saying that the false tones on BBb tuba from low Eb to B, above the fundamental, are not pedal tones?

Because they're not.

Todd S. Malicoate wrote:

GC wrote:Why are you saying that the false tones on BBb tuba from low Eb to B, above the fundamental, are not pedal tones?

Because they're not.

@Todd: I see that your signature is appropriate.

The definition of pedal tones I learned long ago (okay, maybe incorrectly) was any tones below the standard range of the instrument (low E for a BBb tuba). I've seen nothing in any of these posts to convince me otherwise.

Pedal tones are those played with your feet.

Couldn't get 'em up to my mouthpiece.

sloan wrote:Pedal tones are those played with your feet.

I can play some super high pedal notes

GC wrote:@Todd: I see that your signature is appropriate.

The definition of pedal tones I learned long ago (okay, maybe incorrectly) was any tones below the standard range of the instrument (low E for a BBb tuba). I've seen nothing in any of these posts to convince me otherwise.

Just because you're not convinced doesn't mean you're not wrong.