TubeNet

err, wow. Some people think its a competition... I don't get it. "You did a great job performing Berlioz last year, I was very impressed, I enjoyed it very much!" Doesn't that sound and feel better? Why do people have to be such downers.

I go to hear fantastic music.

What a DOPE!!

Technically speaking, 1 comment, or anything, is an odd number

I'd love another opportunity to perform Symphony Fantastique again. So far I don't know of anyone who would be waiting for me to make a mistake. Although i've made a couple this year but no one has slated me for it.

I guess your odd comment goes to prove you can't please all the people all the time

It has been said -- apparently accurately -- that "if there was nothing to complain about, someone would complain about *that*." Humans is funny critters sometimes ...

Ben wrote:err, wow. Some people think its a competition... I don't get it. "You did a great job performing Berlioz last year, I was very impressed, I enjoyed it very much!" Doesn't that sound and feel better? Why do people have to be such downers.

I go to hear fantastic music.

So do I -- and I'd bet we both do!

bloke wrote:A few days ago, another tuba player came up to me and said, "I heard you play the Berlioz [Symphonie Fantastique] last year. I kept waiting for you to make a mistake, but you never did."

...

...

...




Does anyone (besides the person who spoke to me) actually attend concerts to see if people mess up?

A local "professional" orchestra I often hear perform has horn and trumpet players who cannot get through a concert without big mistakes (the kind everyone notices and you can anticipate when you know a trouble spot is coming up). It really does ruin a lot of concerts and I rarely go anymore (especially knowing that there are players in my college orchestra that could play those pieces better than these professionals). If they do happen to make it through a famous piece without any mistakes, I would likely (only in my head) say, "Wow, they didn't screw up." But, no, I would never say it to a performer!

I have been around musicians professionally now for about 30 years. I have never understood the particular competitiveness among tuba players. Considering how well we get along when hanging out together, I am still quite surprised at the pettiness I observe about professional playing - particularly with students. Maybe it's because there are so few jobs, the students are nervous that it's like lions eating their young...trust me it isn't.

I don't see this so much with other musicians, although it can always be there to some degree. I also play classical guitar and am involved on the "TubeNet" of that world. It is quite funny to me to note the behavioral differences between guitarists and tubists. CG's seem to want to debate their elders (Segovia vs. Williams) much more than rag on each other, where as us tuba players are much more likely to talk amongst ourselves about how "so-and-so" choked the high Ab in that Fantastique run. (Guess what kids, that's not even really written in the part - just an occasional self-imposed riff for bored-to-death symphonic tuba players to attempt some fun.)

My point is Joe that you should just enjoy the comments from the odd audience member who says that they "never knew the tuba could do that.." much more than the random (probably lousy) student in the audience that said they thought that high C was slightly flat.

I

Well, some people watch hockey just for the fights . . .

Hey,
People don't want to hear great playing. Here is a link to Kenny Werner's book "Effortless Mastery"

http://www.scribd.com/doc/73216547/Kenn ... ss-Mastery" target="_blank

Check out Chapter 8 Called Hearing Dysfunctions, Fear-Based Listening. It's the same reason people watch reality TV, they want to know that others are far worse than them. To see or hear of someone actually playing well, hurts their soul.

The book is really quite good if you can wade through some of the new age speak. It contains very practical techniques to improve your playing. It's really a joy for me to revisit this book. I always feel silly carrying it around with me, but luckily I found a couple of free PDF versions online and I can just read it on my phone with iBooks. (Don't worry, I own a copy that I purchased at full price.)

Bill

I suffer from severe anxiety when watching groups perform sometimes. Especially watching young groups, or groups who I have worked with.

When I perform personally, I have never had performance anxiety. When I watch a group perform and the ensemble begins to tear or there is a large mistake somewhere in the work I begin to panic, and literally feel that anxiety for the musicians.

When I work with marching bands, during performances a lot of times I have to sequester myself to underneath the stands, or in the bathroom, etc.

I can not imagine watching a performance as some kind of game of "mistake chicken".

Quite exactly 41 years ago I arrived in the main town in a tourist area very far from my own country. Already the first night I found posters telling about a late night concert, where the local, allegedly professional, orchestra would perform Beethoven’s Eroica and a well known piece of a national composer. I bough a ticket and entered the hall, which had no roof. The close sequence od blatant errors made Eroica very entertaining.

A bow hair broke at the 2nd desk primos. The player went furious and pulled of the ends in a fashion generating much noise from the strings as well as from the violin body.

The cello section had an elderly lady of some proportions as the leader. The rest of the section was filled by three young goddesses, visually. During the first movement the bridge of the leader slammed very loudly agains the body of her cello, and she left the stage, whereafter the goddesses moved up one chair. When the leader returned to the stage, she demanded her chair back, but the goddesses kept their newly won positions.

In the second movement a solo beat in the timpani didn’t come, and the music came to a halt until one of the basses played that note pizzicato.

I don’t think the circus effects were planned for, because the piece by their national composer sounded very much better.

20 years ago I went to Maurice André’s last concert in Denmark. Really amazingly beautiful playing. What I also noted after the concert was the very beautiful playing of to young horn players, whereas a trumpet friend only could report on the alleged errors made by the trumpet section.

10 years ago our regional orchestra (based in Copenhagen) came to my town and I went furious because I found the musicians had been abused. For political/budgetary reasons they had programmed Dvorak’s Requiem as sort of support for the regional amateur choirs. Hundreds of elderly ladies and less than fifty male voices. Even worse the conductor was a bore coming from the choir movement. After the concert I said to my local journalist friend: Therapy for old witches! Which he used as next day’s headline. Lots of protesting letters to the editor. Funnily enough they admitted the concert had been less than memorable, only they found the headline bad style.

As for the comments to bloke’s performance I guess somebody wants his position in the Memphis free-lance market.

Klaus

Granted, I don't know the context of how this was said, but it is possible this person meant it as a compliment.

When I hear Symphonie Fantastique, or any other very difficult work, I usually expect to hear some type of flub by somebody. I mean.....it's difficult! Perhaps they were just pointing out that unlike the typical performance, which has missed notes and poor intonation, your performance was very good.

GC wrote:Well, some people watch hockey just for the fights . . .

Wait a minute...that's why I go to concerts!

doublebuzzing wrote: A local "professional" orchestra I often hear perform has horn and trumpet players who cannot get through a concert without big mistakes (the kind everyone notices and you can anticipate when you know a trouble spot is coming up). It really does ruin a lot of concerts and I rarely go anymore (especially knowing that there are players in my college orchestra that could play those pieces better than these professionals).

Sorry, couldn't let this one go past - let me just say that I've been in a similar position, years ago, and now with the added water under the bridge I pretty much think that I missed the point. While I am the last one to get out the miniature violin when anyone mentions how tough it is for musicians, I now grant the truth behind the idea of only judging someone when you've walked a mile in their shoes...my guess is that while it may appear like simple lack of ability to you, that there are other factors as work.

To illustrate, I spent much of my time in music college in judgement of my teacher who played with one of the world's top orchestras, a common practise amongst students in that particular college. With more work experience under my belt I am now more able to put things in some sort of perspective and to acknowledge that playing for a living often means that there are a hundred other things going on at the same time as any performance.

I think that the way forward, in my humble opinion, is to always listen with the idea of looking for the good in a performance, when you are listening to others and when you are performing yourself - I think that we all can admit that the list of things we aren't happy with in our own playing is hard-wired into our musical awareness and serves a certain purpose. Perhaps the practise room is the place for this microscopic analysis but it isn't always relevant or appropriate for that to be mistaken for the real world.

My thoughts...peace & happy holidays.

bloke wrote:Does anyone (besides the person who spoke to me) actually attend concerts to see if people mess up?

No. At least not me, and I sure hope not. That would be a complete waste of time and money. I can't convince myself this person was totally serious though, as much as trying to be funny (but completely failing at it).

Just the opposite, I actually don't mind (and sometimes even *enjoy*) hearing a cracked note or two during a live performance. It's reassuring to know that there are humans playing music up there. I don't like to hear too many (directly proportional to the amount I paid to go), nor do I like to hear fracked "big parts" of pieces. But I'm realistic, and want to see reasonably prepared (again, relative to the group) musicians taking it seriously and doing their best.

By contrast, maybe 6 or 7 years ago I saw a performance of Johan de Meij's T-bone concerto at a well-known music conservatory, where the soloist was a big player in the local symphony. It was terrible, as if he was sight-reading. Completely unprepared, and so unpleasant to listen to that people started leaving the audience during it. There's a huge difference between making a mistake or two and just not being performance-ready.

bloke wrote:A few days ago, another tuba player came up to me and said, "I heard you play the Berlioz [Symphonie Fantastique] last year. I kept waiting for you to make a mistake, but you never did."

...

...

...




Does anyone (besides the person who spoke to me) actually attend concerts to see if people mess up?

Does improvisational jazz have any wrong notes?

cjk wrote:Does improvisational jazz have any wrong notes?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmzLV1m1 ... e=youtu.be

I am quite sure that the other tuba player was trying to give the highest praise possible.

Klaus, could you please post pictures of the three goddesses?

Somewhere on my old computer there's a folder of "trumpet bloopers" (MP3's) that I found on a website somewhere. I know the players involved are all much better than me but it's still funny, (nearly as good as "The Last Trumpet Christmas")............

Anonymous

Joe, there is at least one other person with that mind set — I got that same comment many years ago after an opera performance where I had a lot of stuff to play. I think he meant it as a compliment; at least I chose to take it that way. Funny way to say it, though. Your post made me remember that moment, and chuckle!

Will Traphagan