TubeNet

Posted: **Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:36 am**

Meinl-Weston used to make a 45K Model HEIKO TRIEBENER which had a dependent flat whole step fifth as well. It also had a second valve gadget to fix 2+4 combinations.

Having two dependent valves makes a lot more sense than one, especially on an F tuba.

Posted: **Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:40 pm**

Mnozil brass like to have slightly weird instruments. I'm sure that's a tiny part of the dependent valve choice for this instrument.

Appears to me that had they used a B&S style shorter leadpipe that enters the top valve from the side rather than the top, then there would have been enough space for 6 independent valves. Perhaps Mr. Brandstötter wanted the 5th and 6th to be larger, but didn't want the first 4 valves to be higher, so that's what they ended up with.

If this is correct: 'bore: 18,5mm / .728˝ - 21,5mm /.846' then it might mean that each valve is 1mm larger than the preceding one (other than the dependent ones, which are likely the same size as the 4th). That would mean that the valves would start out a bit smaller than the piston version.

Posted: **Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:54 pm**

Hi-
Oh, of course, if the Germans/Meinl Weston make a dependent valve(s) F tuba, now it's ok

Might it just be that they experimented, and indeed found that a dependent 5th ( & 6th) valve(s) work best--just like on the 5v Fafner, Fasolt, and 197/198...hmmm...

Mark

Posted: **Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:28 pm**

Anything you say Joe.....

Mark

Posted: **Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:03 pm**

It doesn't matter if a Bb has a dependent 5th. While I think every tuba should be equally capable, most people have no need to play 16th note runs below low F every day.

Regardless, I think that is a GOOD looking instrument! I've considered 2 dependent valves on 4 bangers before though you still lose out on in the staff alternate fingerings. It'd be an interesting idea on a 321 euphonium especially (as opposed to the current option of picking one note over the other), though personally I'd want to try it on a nice American baritone.

Posted: **Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:41 pm**

bloke wrote:
agreed. Due to less resistance, it takes a tremendous amount of energy to play the 22XX tubas in the high range for an extended period of time. That (combined with the lack of 6-valve tuning options) are a couple of reasons why I personally (slightly reluctantly) passed over the 2250...

This is the exact reason I thought long and hard about buying the 2250. I had a nice one picked out, but it just didn't fit the bill like my JBL. It would make a terrific quintet F tuba, but took entirely too much effort for me to play in the extreme upper register.

As for Willie's instrument choices, I had extensive conversations with him about the design and creation of the MW Kronos. I even had the pleasure of spending some time playing his horn. It was a very solid F tuba... Very piston-like, and heavy in the low register. He uses a contrabass sized F tuba mouthpiece on it, and doesn't do a ton of extreme upper register stuff in Mnozil. It fills his demands quite well in the group. They are an extremely loud ensemble, and all of their instruments are designed to put out a very solid sound. I'm interested to see if he'll use the 2260 in the group. It's time to have another tuba talk with him!

Posted: **Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:37 am**

Does anyone know the brand of the tuba where the rotaries are placed in a zig zag pattern?

Posted: **Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:28 am**

LJV wrote:
Herein lies the key to making the 2250 do your bidding. If you just have to use a big, ol' mouthpiece, the 2250 will be more work in the upper register because the entire horn across the range is very open. It plays very evenly and the sound and response match in evenness. If your are trained to play a German style rotary F, the 2250 will seem foreign. You will have to undo the adjustments that you may have built into your bass tuba routine.

We tend to let the horn in our hands flip a switch for us on what to do regarding approach. We expect certain feedback and play accordingly. We add resistance or openness to accommodate what we have learned is necessary to produce what we seek. We do this without thinking. Our bodies do it for us.

The 2250 will not play like a German F. It plays more open and evenly. More like the really good, in tune, colorful sounding Eb tuba that I could never find.

I like the C4 (modified) and a couple versions of the Tilz M9 on the 2250. None of these have throats that have been enlarged.

The Blokepiece solo was too open and tubby on the 2250 (but, it's very nice on a rotary F that needs it's attributes...).

The 2250 is a great match for my contra bass tubas. No accommodating, no adjustments. Just grab and go.

It is thought like this that makes Tubenet such a valuable resource. Well put.

L, if you don't make it to the Army show this year I am sending a Harry and David's flamin' bag o' dog sheet to your doorstep.

I hear you don't wear shoes around the house.

Sack up and drive. See you in a month.

Posted: **Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:06 pm**

How're the partials on this family of tubas?

Posted: **Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:24 pm**

Man, MW is really pumping out the new models these days (a good thing, in my opinion). I'm really going to take a good look at this horn, provided they actually bring some to the U.S. in the next year. I'd be really curious to see what effect the dependent valves has on the playing characteristics. Herr Brandstotter does mention something about an especially open low register in that video, so hopefully that's a good sign about this new model.

Posted: **Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:59 pm**

There is at least one word I don’t understand in the Brandstötter video. I is shortly after 15 seconds in from the beginning.

What did they take from an Eb tuba and adapt for an F tuba?

Klaus

Posted: **Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:19 pm**

Bob Kolada wrote:It'd be an interesting idea on a 321 euphonium especially (as opposed to the current option of picking one note over the other), though personally I'd want to try it on a nice American baritone.

Done.

Ferguson

Posted: **Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:40 pm**

This 6 valve tuba layout could be considered approaching a double tuba in F & C, only the C side is down to 2 valves. As the C side is inserted in the F side, the 3 valves on the F side can be used to help out on the C side. This approach has similarities to the 3+3RV Viennese tuba.

Klaus

Posted: **Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:56 am**

Ferguson wrote:
Bob Kolada wrote:It'd be an interesting idea on a 321 euphonium especially (as opposed to the current option of picking one note over the other)
Done.

Ferguson

Ah, but I specifically mean TWO valves. I'm aware of the new and old dependent fifth for the 321.

Posted: **Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:57 am**

TYA wrote:Does anyone know the brand of the tuba where the rotaries are placed in a zig zag pattern?

You might be asking about the Kronos tuba, apparently made by Melton. I see it listed as a Schagerl Kronos Tuba but a pdf brochure I've seen has a Melton logo.

I didn't find the tuba listed in the Melton website but I didn't look too hard. Thein used to make something similiar but it seems to be gone from their website.

Go here http://www.worldbandmusic.com/Galerias/ ... large.html

Wilfried Brandstötter of Mnonzil Brass plays this particular model. Five valves and 2 triggers for slide throws. Over 11,000 euros, yeow!

Posted: **Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:10 am**

Kronos_A5_Web.jpg

Posted: **Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:10 pm**

bloke wrote:...and I'm not-at-all certain that some of these pinches and distortions do not offer some positive effects.

On my so-called "BART" project, the bell, bugle, mouthpiece receiver, and leadpipe (although shortened slightly) all remained the same. The length mouthpiece to tuning slide remained the same. Yet, the sound timbre is different with the four piston cluster replacing three of the four rotary valves. Not necessarily better or worse, but just a little different. Even my non-tuba-playing wife picked up on this. There is a certain "something" that the twisted, pinched, and distorted airpath of rotary valves do to color the sound of the horn, that is different than the straight through path of a piston valveset with all the valves in the up position.

Posted: **Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:17 pm**

bloke wrote:blah blah blah tuba design blah

But Joe, it *LOOKS* cool! Who cares 'bout the rest?!

Posted: **Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:10 pm**

bloke wrote:
bort wrote:
bloke wrote:blah blah blah tuba design blah
But Joe, it *LOOKS* cool! Who cares 'bout the rest?!
To me, it looks like Melton is cranking out a bunch of exotic-valveset F tubas using the 45SL-P bugle.

It worked for Besson.

Posted: **Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:57 pm**

Alex C wrote:
TYA wrote:Does anyone know the brand of the tuba where the rotaries are placed in a zig zag pattern?
You might be asking about the Kronos tuba, apparently made by Melton. I see it listed as a Schagerl Kronos Tuba but a pdf brochure I've seen has a Melton logo.

I didn't find the tuba listed in the Melton website but I didn't look too hard. Thein used to make something similiar but it seems to be gone from their website.

Go here http://www.worldbandmusic.com/Galerias/ ... large.html

Wilfried Brandstötter of Mnonzil Brass plays this particular model. Five valves and 2 triggers for slide throws. Over 11,000 euros, yeow!

I think their was another one too. Not made by Melton.

TubeNet

another dependent system F tuba

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