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I've had this for a while but put it off so it built up and totally stopped my 1st valve. Is there a way to get this stuff off without a chem cleaning? The music store had no other fix.

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Works great as long as you dont lose any parts, drop anything, etc.

I have very successfully used 409 to clean my rotary tuba -- and on the recommendation of my technician. If you haven't done something like this already, I'd try spraying a decent amount of it down the slide tubes and working the valve. Then flush everything. When I flush the horn I hook a garden hose to it via a little connector I've made and flush the entire instrument from the mouthpipe. (I do this with the instrument in a Jupiter tuba stand, and with only a "reasonable" stream of water.) The 409 works amazingly well and does not harm the finish (at least has not on the two instruments I've used it on, and the technician says he uses it very widely). You should let the stuff sit for a while before flushing, and then maybe repeat.

Quick and dirty cleaning of rotary valves (no pun intended)? Pour white vinegar into the leadpipe and make sure the valves are covered. It's smelly but it sure cleans the rotors. You should use a brush with soap and water on the bore to remove oils which will inhibit the vinegar.

Yes, I have used white vinegar as well. It is best if you can basically fill the horn with it (or at least the valve section and let it sit since its acidity can take care of at least some mineral deposit problems (though not like muriatic acid!). I let mine sit overnight if possible. However, when I got my old euphonium I first cleaned it with detergent, then vinegar, then detergent again. After playing it for a while, it still seemed a bit dirty to me, and a look inside the tubing confirmed this (black deposit basically lining the walls). That's when I used the 409 -- which flushed an incredible amount of junk out and really cleaned the horn. However, the vinegar will have an effect on mineral deposits that the 409 won't.

For quick and dirty cleaning, I would remove the rotors and soak them in toilet bowl cleaner for five minutes.* (White vinegar often takes up to an hour to work.) I would then use 409, (or, more likely, Lime Away), on the housings and the adjacent slides. I do recall putting toothpaste (not gel) on the rotor itself and then putting it back in its housing, rotating it thoroughly, and irrigating. This technique worked fine when I was in high school and using the school's decades-old Yamahas, but I wouldn't use it on a horn with close tolerances.

* All of my rotary horns have always had easy-to-remove stop arms and caps, so it was an easy matter to keep a screwdriver and a rubber mallet in my gig bag. YMMV in determining whether this is a quick procedure.

Some of the things you guys are mentioning either may contain (toothpaste) or definitely contain (lava soap) abrasives. Not something that I'd like to get to my valve or bearing surfaces, or slides. That kind of "cleaning" might be irreversible.

The Lime Away suggestion is an interesting one, but I'm not sure what the chemical reactions with the brass might be? What exactly is its action? I know it should be very effective against calcium deposits, but maybe a little scary. Might as well use muriatic acid under similarly controlled circumstances, no? But that's for fairly serious mineral corrosion rather than "gunk", I would think. Also, with any of these things you need to worry about the effect on the finish. An advantage of the 409 is that it doesn't seem to bother any finish I've used it on.

Lots of good suggestions here. Simply removing the main tuning slide and circulating any sort of degreasing media such as 409 or plain old dishwashing liquid and warm water through the valves while actuating the valves can go a long way towards cleaning a horn.

I have an aquarium pump that I use sometimes to circulated cleaning agents through a horn. Just attach the pump output to the leadpipe and let the media flow back unto the bucket containing the cleaner and pump. Just let it work for a while. Tie down one valve at a time to circulate through each tuning circuit.

The only reason to chem-clean a horn with acidic material is if there is a presence of calcium or lime buildup... which will be indicated by hard, white, crusty scale at the valve ports and in the slides.

Another thought -- prior to proceeding. Have you disassembled the linkage so that you are sure that the problem is with the VALVE? And when you do that, is the valve really stuck? That is, you can't turn it by hand at all? Or can you turn it, but it's difficult/sluggish? Bloke is certainly right that if you really have a frozen rotary valve, then this is unlikely to happen unless corrosion has frozen the lower bushing. An alternative possibility is that some "foreign object" (food particles?) has found it's way into that one valve and is preventing it from turning. In either of those cases, I would suspect disassembly of the valve would be necessary.

But if the linkage is sluggish/frozen/possibly bent, then that is another story.

bloke wrote:One thing's pretty clear: It ain't gonna get fixed talking about it on tubenet.

I don't know. We've seen several reports of people who thought their tubas played significantly better after just letting them sit around for a while.

Well, i took everything apart used a little of everything talked about and my valves are better then they ever were!
Thanks alot fellow tubas!