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Santa brought me a Schiller CC 4 rotor tuba for Christmas, which I'm already enjoying. I play a Besson euphonium with Dennis Wick 4AL mouthpiece, and I'm finding the new generic Schiller mouthpiece to be a jarring jump in size with a fairly thin rim. Can anyone suggest an easier transition mouthpiece with a smaller bowl/thicker rim?

Thanks!
Pat

Pat S wrote:Santa brought me a Schiller CC 4 rotor tuba for Christmas, which I'm already enjoying. I play a Besson euphonium with Dennis Wick 4AL mouthpiece, and I'm finding the new generic Schiller mouthpiece to be a jarring jump in size with a fairly thin rim. Can anyone suggest an easier transition mouthpiece with a smaller bowl/thicker rim?

Thanks!
Pat

Congratulations on the new tuba! What size mouthpiece did it come with?

I can't tell what kind it is... no markings.

Thanks,
Pat

My Rotar CC Miraphone clone came with a mouthpiece that was an inexact copy of the well known 24AW. This mouthpiece may not be ideal for several reasons. Many do not like the rounded cushion rim.
The Deep bowl cup helps give a dark sound but might not be the best match for horn or player. And the rim diameter is smaller than what most tuba players use nowdays. As to your needs you could try a Bach 25, it doesn't have the cushion rim has a medium cup, and is fairley small, and I would not recomment anything smaller on tuba. If your chops can handle it a Conn Helleberg 7B, or an old Conn 3 sound very good on this horn, but they are a little big larger, but not nearly as large as what many tuba players play.

I gather you're teaching yourself to play. There are lots of good mouthpieces out there. Since no one knows what you have, we're shooting in the dark when we try to relate your mystery mouthpiece to anything else - I think it's a safe bet you'd do well to ditch this mouthpiece, especially if it's similar to a 24AW as proposed above, but beyond that, it comes down to some basic on-line pedagogy.

My personal theory is that you will have to get used to playing a tuba sized mouthpiece, and a transition period is just time wasted, so the best bet would be something of average normal dimensions. One solution would be to order a couple of the Kelly polycarbonate mouthpieces, their clones of the Bach 18 and Conn Helleberg 120. Inexpensive, and will continue to be useful even if only as spares (much more at home in a coat pocket or glove box than a metal mouthpiece) or for outdoor use. I don't believe they're exact copies, but may be close enough to give you a sense of the two basic cup styles ("bowl" and "funnel".) Which works for you may depend on the instrument, but I suspect it's more about your face and your embouchure type. You will probably find that both are at least as wide as your current mouthpiece; the 18 will have a "normal" rounded rim and the Kellyberg will be somewhat flattened. Both will have fairly normal throat and backbore dimensions, which could be part of the problem with what you have.

The selmansberger "blokepiece" solo and symphony mouthpieces tend to work particularly well on these instruments, the solo if you want a more colorful sound and the symphony if you want a very dark sound; these models tend to have a dark sound to begin with. The selmansberger mouthpieces have a wide range of rim choices. The user known as Bloke can assist.

modelerdc wrote:My Rotar CC Miraphone clone came with a mouthpiece that was an inexact copy of the well known 24AW. This mouthpiece may not be ideal for several reasons.

It's ideal for throwing at things But seriously, buy a mouthpiece that is made for a tuba, not some "doubler's miracle" piece or transition piece with some special rim diameter. The Kelly mouthpieces are a great ideal to get you started, then you can start looking elsewhere (if the Kelly doesn't do exactly what you want).
I personally really like a shallower bowl cupped mouthpiece (ex: Pt-64/65, C4, other Eb/F mouthpieces) in my 4 rotor CC, but it trades low range for response. Others like large mouthpieces (ex: PT-50/88, Hellebergs, etc) for bigger (sometimes woofier) sound and contrast. Again, order a couple Kelly's or go to a large music store and try a few different pieces to see what works for YOU.

A big part of the equation here is how a mouthpiece fits YOU -- which in part depends on the structure of your mouth. Over time I've come to feel that while a 32mm rim is pretty good for me and works well on my horn for most concert band work, it is a little too big (especially with a fairly deep cup) for "solo" work or managing the higher register. After a LOT of experimentation I'm happy with my PT-89 for normal band stuff (love the sound and articulation), but am still looking for something a teeny bit smaller for solo-ish or smallish-ensemble use. My next attempts will be to try the Miraphone TU-15 and TU-17. If those don't give me what I want, I'll give up and just learn to better master the PT-89.

But definitely I am unhappy with anything larger than a 32mm rim. So you will need to do a little experimentation to see what fits you best -- and you won't really be able to tell until you have some skills and experience with the tuba. I absolutely HATE the Bach mouthpieces, liked the Schilkes (especially the 66), but have now settled on something completely different. It's a journey. Several places offer the opportunity to get two or more mouthpieces on trial for a small "restocking fee" (some don't even charge that) and shipping. But even then, if you have no experience and nothing to compare to, it's hard to make much of such a trial. One thing you might do is get a Conn 7 and a Conn 120S on trial, see which one of those you prefer, and then just stick with that for, say, six months. They're relatively cheap and good mouthpieces, and you can often get one really cheap on eBay (I just sold one there -- virtually unused -- for $25). Then start to look around in earnest. I like the Kellys, but a problem with the Kelleyburg (which I also have and use on occasion) is that it is quite big (pretty much a 120S clone, maybe a smidge bigger). So it may not be the best choice to start with.

The Conn hellebergs work for me, too ... but, as you said, it's about his (or her) mouth, not ours. Bach 18 clone might be just the ticket.

Also keep an eye out for a PS01 - unlikely to find one, and they're so sought after that someone who's really dying to have one for his Besson Eb might be mortified to know that you have snagged one for such a silly reason: the "PS" stands for Pat S (Sheridan.) It's a good mouthpiece, hope Dillon or whoever will bring it back. Medium/small rather bowl shaped mouthpiece with a round rim.

Donn wrote: Also keep an eye out for a PS01 - unlikely to find one, and they're so sought after that someone who's really dying to have one for his Besson Eb might be mortified to know that you have snagged one for such a silly reason: the "PS" stands for Pat S (Sheridan.) It's a good mouthpiece, hope Dillon or whoever will bring it back. Medium/small rather bowl shaped mouthpiece with a round rim.

The PS01 and 02 have huge 33.5 mm rim diameters and very deep cups designed for contrabasses. The 03, 04, and 05 have smaller 31.something mm rim diameters and are designed for bass tubas.

TheHatTuba wrote: The PS01 and 02 have huge 33.5 mm rim diameters and very deep cups designed for contrabasses. The 03, 04, and 05 have smaller 31.something mm rim diameters and are designed for bass tubas.

Oops, I should have looked first. Actually mine is an S3, which I suppose is the same thing as PS03 but I'm not sure everyone would agree?

When in doubt, Bach 18. It works on everything.

Bach 18 might be a good start especially if you think you like one of those wider "cushion" rims (yech!). But in that case I'd vote for the Kelly version. $30 or less. I've got both the Helleberg (for cold weather tuba playing) and a 51D (which I find to be way too small) for my euph, and I like the feel and sound of them both. Impressive color choices too. And then even if you ultimately find something better for you (which you will in not too much time), you'll still have a very useful cold weather mouthpiece.

Being a guy who has a Schiller 5/4 Rotary BBb, I know just how good that OEM mouthpiece is.

It works great as a door stop!

I’m using the Sellsmanberger Symphony and the Loud 5 (Mouthpiece Ordinance 5) both by Houser Mouthpieces. These mouthpieces are both two piece and have an assortment of rims that can be used. I use the Fair Dinkum #2 med. narrow and like it a lot. It will give you a quick response but isn’t so sharp as to hurt after long hours of playing like the Helleburg will after 4 or 5 hours. The C4LA has the same inner contour but is wider for a more comfortable feel. I like the Symphony which is more of a cup shape for solo work and the MO-5 that has more of a funnel for blending with a section.

Houser has created a fantastic pdf file that is availble for free that compares the bowls and the rims against each other so you can make a good educated decision before ordering. Check it out at http://www.housermouthpiece.net/tumo1.html

One thing to be careful about when choosing a mouthpiece is that these Schiller horns are sensitive to the larger rims and will start to play flat if you don't expand the bore along with the rim. Happy hunting!!

Donn wrote:

TheHatTuba wrote: The PS01 and 02 have huge 33.5 mm rim diameters and very deep cups designed for contrabasses. The 03, 04, and 05 have smaller 31.something mm rim diameters and are designed for bass tubas.

Oops, I should have looked first. Actually mine is an S3, which I suppose is the same thing as PS03 but I'm not sure everyone would agree?

There were the O1 and O2 for big tubas, and S1- S4 for smaller tubas.

S3 is about the size of a PT-65: ~32mm rim + shallow cup. I believe PS himself uses S3 on his Besson 983 Eb.

Correction: I think there might've been a S5 (so S1-S5)

If I were starting on tuba, I would suggest either the new Conn 2 / King 2 or a Bach 22. Not too big inside diameter, not to deep, and a throat small enough to not suck the life out of you,... and the horn will still sound like a tuba when you use it.

The good old Conn 2 - as we know it, a thing of the past, but is the "Conn 1792-2" the same thing in a different outside shape?

The 1792-2 is a tuba mouthpiece for beginners and those who already possess other brass instrument skills. Medium deep cup depth and medium round rim shape.

Incidentally, a tuba player I'm acquainted with has been playing one of these for years, and doing pretty well with it. I think the notion that it's good for beginners could be a little misleading - it isn't some kind of kids mouthpiece. The Conn 2 looks similar inside to the Conn 7B, but to my ear the 7B is slightly brighter for whatever reason, and I have some reason to think the 1792-2 follows the 2 in this respect.

Donn wrote:The good old Conn 2 - as we know it, a thing of the past, but is the "Conn 1792-2" the same thing in a different outside shape?

Not sure. I heard it is. I've never played the old Conn 2, but I do know I like the new one.

Thanks to all for your replies. I decided to go with a Bach 18 and a polycarbonate Kellyberg (along with a BERP to practice my buzzing while away from the tuba)... I'll let you know how it goes.

Thanks,
Pat