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Hello all,

I'm being torn apart on how picky I should be with buying my next horn. I've tried PT-6's, I've tried Nirschls, I've heard good things about Rudy Meinl 5/4's and Thors, but I can't personally compare these horns very well because I've never played them long enough to know how they fair.

If any of you own these horns, please let me know what you think of them!

Yeah I feel like the 186 is holding me back a bit and I'd rather switch sooner than later, and my teacher agrees (although I do love my 186). I mentioned those horns because I know I want those horns/or as close as possible, but I haven't played them or know enough about them to make a good decision.

Also I'm not dead set on rotary horns, although I'd prefer them (for no particular reason).

The 5/4 Rudy is tough to compare to the 186. One is a lot of work (rewarding nonetheless), while the other is pretty easy to handle.

If I were in your shoes, and wanted something a little bigger, something a little more responsive in the low register, with solid intonation, and at a decent price, I'd be all over a Miraphone Bruckner. It's a little more like a large 4/4 than a true 5/4, but it flat out plays. Maybe along with a few HB-2s, the best 4/4 CC I've ever spent any amount of time on.

Last I looked, Dillon had a used one on it's site.

Good luck with everything, but don't run out on that 186 without due process, as it is surely a horn that you can do a lot of things with.

bloke wrote:I have definite opinions of all of those models, but I would strongly discourage you to become interested in a model of tuba because of anyone else's opinion of it.

Head for the Army Conference or TMEA.

bloke "Most other people's opinions of various models of tubas seem about as useful to me as various people's opinions of religions and political parties."

I concur. Strongly.

Oh no, I'm not using these opinions to decide, just trying to see if there is a general "like/dislike" of any of these horns. I'll be trying out any horn I end up showing any interest in, and only if I feel I could accomplish something with the most ease on a horn would I buy it.


I've never even heard of the Bruckner ... *looks into it*...

LJV wrote:These questions are akin to "what do you guys think of my girlfriend"...

I think your wife had better not find out.

Seriously, LJV is right. Try one, form your own opinion.

"that thing won't play itself, you know.." -U of M, 1981

JHardisk wrote:

LJV wrote:These questions are akin to "what do you guys think of my girlfriend"...

I think your wife had better not find out.

Seriously, LJV is right. Try one, form your own opinion.

For women and tubas, that is good advice.

On the original question, a 5/4 Rudy is way more than you are likely to need.

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If you're seriously looking, and the 5/4 Rudy is attractive, you might want to try a Neptune. Very similar dimensionally, has a lot going for it flexibility-wise and price-wise.

I own a 5/4 Rudy and a Thor. I have played on a few PT, but I never was able to like them. My Rudy is very easy handling compared to many I have tried. i do have to say that you need to get used to the low G,Fsharp and F, but once you get used to it, the instrument is very rewarding. I have been doing a lot of playing on the Thor recently and the instrument is pretty similar to handle in the middle and upper register, but you could play anyway you want for the lower register and it still answers nicely, but the sound is still nothing compared to the 5/4 Rudy. The Rudy just has this sound that you cannot get anywhere else. it just is so rewarding when you can support a trombone section nicely with the Rudy and it has so much personality that I found was lacking in the PT's and my Thor. No instrument plays for you. You have to learn every different instrument since none, even from the same model, play the same. Just what I humbly think.

You asked for opinions, so here goes...

I have a 5/4 Rudy, and I think it is hands down the best sounding CC tuba I've played. It has a unique tone color that I have not found anywhere else. I have played, for comparison, all of the Meinl-Westons except the Tuono, nearly all the current miraphone offerings (I have not tried the 190), the Neptune, Kanstul 90, the Gronitz PCK and the PT6, both piston and rotary. I still love the Rudy the best.

However...

I have been tempted to trade or sell it, at times, because it is such a beast to play. It's a horn I have to work at EVERY DAY to keep my chops on it. It takes real work to get the low range to respond exactly how I want. When I dedicate the time to it, it is the best tuba I have played, but I have to remain dedicated to it. It also has a pretty huge bore and takes buckets of air to play, which is another drawback.

Still, I have stuck by the Rudy because, in my opinion, IT's WORTH THE EFFORT.

The Thor, by comparison, is exceptionally EASY to play for a big CC tuba, especially in the low range. The Thor's "point-and-shoot" nature has a lot of appeal. However, for me the tone was a bit bland and one-dimensional, as (again for me) all the MW CC's are. Other players sound GREAT on MW's in general and Thors in particular, but they are not for me. I will say that this is because I personally tend to sound a bit bright, and the Meinl-Westons do not camouflage this like the Rudy does.

The other thing to consider about the Rudy 5/4 is that it's not a 5/4, it's a 6/4, and this can make it a bit limited in its uses. The Bruckner, Thor or PT6 is more versatile if you only have one horn in the stable. I have a big F that works great for chamber music so I use the CC as a "bring out the big guns" kind of thing.

JCalkin wrote: I have a big F that works great for chamber music so I use the CC as a "bring out the big guns" kind of thing.

What F tuba do you use next to the Rudy 5/4 ?

Listening to that Vienna Brass clip in the VPO post, I would agree that the tuba sounds fantastic, has a great character to the sound... and it sounds so tight that it seems like a needy instrument that requires a lot of attention to keep it (and you) happy.

I owned a 5/4 Rudy a number of years ago and, as has been already stated, it had a wonderful sound but did require a lot of attention to play it well. For orchestra, brass choir (testosterone fest), large wind ensembles, etc., it was a great instrument. 'Way too much for a brass quintet and soloing on it would have been a tremendous challenge. I found mine to be stuffy in the low register for the way I was playing then and the mouthpiece I was using on it, and had to work on the low register to get it to respond as I wanted it to. Yes, it does require quite a bit of air, but rewards you with a great, lush sound that most trombone sections love to play next to.

The Thor, for me, is a very easy horn to play by comparison, but it is a 5/4 while the Rudy is truly a 6/4 instrument. The Thor has a great sound as well, but the character of the sound is quite different from that of the Rudy. Where you would have to work hard on the Rudy to get the low range limber, the Thor does not require that effort. As someone else put it, it's a point and shoot instrument.

The PT6 is also an excellent instrument, as is shown by the number of auditions won on them over the years. My personal experience with them was that they were a bit limited in the louder extreme dynamics. The horn, for me, tended to push back and basically hit the wall at a point when pushed pretty hard. I didn't find this with the Rudy or the Thor. It might be that the slightly smaller bore of the PT6 is the limiting factor, but that is just speculation.

I would second the statements that have already been made to check out the Bruckner as it will be a more versatile instrument and give you plenty to work with. Also, as stated by another poster, look into the Neptune as it is the same size as the Rudy, but a little more user friendly, though without the sound of the Rudy.

Just my opinions for what they're worth.

Roger

Doc wrote:

oedipoes wrote:

JCalkin wrote: I have a big F that works great for chamber music so I use the CC as a "bring out the big guns" kind of thing.

What F tuba do you use next to the Rudy 5/4 ?

The Rudy 5/4 is so big, you could use a big F tuba and still maintain a reasonable size/sound ratio.

Yep. I use a 45S-LP and they still sound quite distinct from one another.