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In my state there's an audition for Districts, and then the 1st chair player from each district goes to All-state and then there's an audition for chair in the All-state band.

In my opinion All-state means the best in the state but the way the system works now there can be a not so great player in All-state but ten fantastic players that don't make it in. Wouldn't it be better if everyone auditioned just for All-state so it's truly the best in the state? Maybe it's for fairness but I'm not sure.

That's a weighted system, so no, it's not directly "the best of the best." Like you said, the best 10 players could all be at a single school, and that would mean only 1 could go. Not sure if that's common or not, or if you live in a gigantic state where a single audition would be impractical?

In North Carolina, there are six districts. The top two players from each district audition for the six chairs at All State. Pretty fair.

In Florida, anyone can audition for All State since state auditions happen at the beginning of the school year before any district bands have been formed.

[quote="phaymore"]In North Carolina, there are six districts. The top two players from each district audition for the six chairs at All State. Pretty fair.

Not exactly fair because if the players from one district are terrible that means some great players from another district may not get in but some bad players do.

In AZ, i think we have 8-9 region. Every kid who makes all-region can tryout for the all-state. each region generally has 13-17 kids tryout and at state, approx. 50-70 tryout. 9 make it at every level (8 band, 1 orchestra). At all-state, they do reseating, and host another audition over the playing material.

I don't really think All-State should be directly tied to All-County/District. There are too many factors involved that could disqualify a kid who isn't able to do both events (like not going to All-County because of a scheduling conflict, family event, or something else).

I also don't like the whole "1 from each district" rule, but I guess that's the PC way to ensure "fairness." Even more fair would be if the actual truth were to come out during an audition (either that a bunch of the rich-school kids make it, or, that a bunch of the rich-school kids did NOT make it). That is, the more you force something to be "fair," the less fair it really is. But, I guess that's good practice for the real life.

I played in the Virginia All State Band way back in 1970 and 1971. Back then the state had 11 All District Bands. The top two tubas from each District Band were allowed to audition for the All State Band. So we had 22 tubas auditioning for the 6 chairs in the All State Band. My junior year I made 3rd chair All State. My senior year I made 1st chair All State. Don't know how "fair" or "unfair" that system was. The year I made 3rd chair I remember thinking afterwords that I was actually a little better than the 2nd chair tuba. The year I made 1st chair I remember thinking afterwords that the 3rd chair tuba was actually a little better than both me and the 2nd chair tuba. But that's just life. Regardless, in both years the sections were damn good sections, we all got along fine, and I had very memorable musical experiences that I still cherish to this day.

In Washington State there are no all-district or all-county bands.

Instead students audition directly to the WMEA (Washington Music Educators Association) and are placed in one of the two bands or orchestras. There is an upper band and orchestra and then a lower band and orchestra.

I don't think this is the right way to do it though. It is difficult for the WMEA to get an accurate depiction of the players with their audition system. Unfortunatly, It is very common for many lower-skill players to get in over better ones.

To me, the NFL analogy would be the NFL picking one person from each College team in the draft.

TinyTubist97 wrote:In my state there's an audition for Districts, and then the 1st chair player from each district goes to All-state and then there's an audition for chair in the All-state band.

In my opinion All-state means the best in the state but the way the system works now there can be a not so great player in All-state but ten fantastic players that don't make it in. Wouldn't it be better if everyone auditioned just for All-state so it's truly the best in the state? Maybe it's for fairness but I'm not sure.

If it was a small state, I think everyone should be allowed to audition for All-state. However, in a state as large and as politicized as Texas, that would be impossible. Its one thing to see the All-state band has some of the best players in the state, but its quite another to say it has the "best of the best"...its a matter of opinion, not fact.

JJ

No, it doesn't mean a whole lot in the big picture. But, it is a very fun experience to work with (usually) a pretty big-name conductor, and especially at such a young age (actual age plus early on in your career playing the tuba), you can really learn a lot. I went to a blue-collar high school, one of the "poorer" ones in the county (like 25 high schools in my county). Though the band director was a really nice and smart guy, it's a very different and encouraging experience to play difficult music with a strong player in each section, and with a strong conductor to shape and develop the group in a short period of time.

That said... I don't remember who my all county, honor band, etc conductors were. I just remember they were great and made it a very worthwhile experience I could have not otherwise received at that age.

In Kentucky, there is no prerequisite of being in all-district or all-regionals in order to try out for all-state. There are usually two cuts, all using the same audition music. There are many different locations for first cuts, whereas the second cut is a whole-day event in a central location. I can see how this system would not work in larger states, but it works well here and is pretty fair. All-regionals and all-district are completely separate entities from all-state.

A little off-topic from the original post, but one of my favorite memories from high school honor bands was playing under the baton of Col. Arnald Gabriel of the US Air Force Band. Fantastic, old-school conductor.

bort wrote:That's a weighted system, so no, it's not directly "the best of the best." Like you said, the best 10 players could all be at a single school, and that would mean only 1 could go.

This is exactly right.

To the OP:

Like James, I can speak, somewhat, to the way things were (are?) in Texas.

When I was in school, "district" was not affiliated with state at all. It was competition within my school district only, which was in the DFW area, in a large district with (then) three 5A sized high schools. The "good" players were expected to audition and make the group without question, which is always exactly what happened.

Region auditions were part of the TMEA ("all state") system. There were several regions in the DFW area even when I was in hs, though the lines have been redone several times since then. Region was competitive. The region bands always rehearsed and presented a concert, it was in January if I recall correctly.

Those that did well at region would go to area. Area was just another stage in which multiple regions were brought together to audition against one another. There was no performance by the area band, as no such ensemble was ever actually assembled.

From area, one could advance to state. Once all staters arrived in San Antonio for the TMEA convention, there would be auditions for chair placement, with the top player having the choice of band or orchestra and the other players being assigned to subsequent chairs.

Now, all one needs to do is look at TMEA's current region alignment map to see which parts of the state were dominating region, area, and ultimately all state auditons. In an effort to level the playing field, the biggest, most competive areas were divided into many smaller regions. The DFW area alone now has 6 different regions. It's a similar story in the Houston area. Did this curb the area's domination or did it encourage it? That's another can of worms.

What I can tell you is that this sort of thing has been going on a long time and administrators have tried to come up with all sorts of ways to deal with it. When I was in high school we all knew that many of the region band guys in the DFW area were "better" players than some of the all staters from some of the smaller, less populated, or more rural regions in other parts of the state. Sure, there were great players in some of those areas, but nonetheless that was the situation at the time. You have to accept the system for what it is and participate or go on without it. Theoretically everyone has an equal shot at all state...at least that is what TMEA would tell you and is what they've tried to do with region alignment. If you want to go one step further, look into how the areas are built or how ATSSB works (a separate arm of TMEA that provides a separate all state track for small school band students to curtail some of the imbalance that exists)

Point being that all state does not mean "best" of anything. Take it for what it is with an understanding of how it works.

The process must have changed in Kentucky since I was in HS (graduated in 1974). At that time only one tuba player in our region could go. I was shut out until my senior year because one of the local band directors, a trombonist, for some reason kept torpedoing me. When a genuine tubist became a band director in the region my senior year and was named to choose tuba candidates, then all was well. Except that, when I got there, 2 kids from other regions were in who couldn't play anywhere near as well as 2 other fellows from Northern Kentucky, whom I had beaten out.

So it goes.

Slightly off-topic, but here's one proud Grandfather. My two grand kids both made California all-state this year - one in high school and one in junior high school. Both play euphonium. We'll be spending a weekend in Fresno in late February listening to a lot of good music.

The audition process was by CD with no pre-selection by district, etc. For high school there's a second live audition at the convention for seating in one of the three bands. For junior high the selection between their two bands is via the audition CD, with no additional live audution.

Bob Van Alstine