TubeNet

Hey all,

That tuba I've been trying to sell ended up being stolen in the past two weeks of me being home. Its a lacquered 52J Conn, Serial Number 229893, has a few indentations the size of a quarter each on the bottom bow, possibly other scratches too as it was stolen without a case or gig bag. Last seen in Amherst, MA. Please keep an eye out for it in any music shops near you or wherever. Thank you!

Justin

It was stolen from inside a music building here on campus. Unfortunately there is not a lot of space given to us so it was in a flight case on the side of my locker. The building usually is locked throughout breaks as no one needs to get in, but someone managed to find a way in at some point and knew where to go to find it (its not easy to find the tuba lockers in this building unless you know where to go...you don't stumble upon them). I guess the only thing to take out of this is security is never guaranteed, people. And if you can leave it in a locked room or something do that. The admins here were asked about places to keep large instruments that can't fit in lockers and not until this situation happened did they finally do something about it. You're right Bloke, we are on our own with this stuff.

Contrast bloke's story with mine (check my previous posts, there aren't too many), and try everything whether you have faith in it or not. Mine showed up on ebay, got discussed here, and with the above-and-beyond cooperation of the Anne Arundel County, Maryland Police, it got back to me after three years.

I'm sorry this happened and best of luck in tracking it down.

That is terrible that someone would steal your tuba. I had an idea that there should be a gps device implanted into each tuba at an inconspicuous place (haven't worked that out yet) and use the metal in the tuba as the beacon almost so that if your tuba was stolen you and the cops could see where it goes if it is stolen. Unfortunately i know the idea would be shot down on the fact many tubists would not want Big Brother watching where they went with their tuba.
Anyway best of luck in finding it, and I agree with the others with checking ebay and criagslist

I called my insurance guy. To insure my tuba, it would require a separate rider on my policy at a rate of $0.65 per thousand of value. How may of you have such a rider?

In indiana... homeowners insurance can/will cover a tuba as personal property as long as it's not used professionally.

Lloyds (UK) offer a Fine String and Musical Instrument cover which isn't exorbitant and is tailored to professional usage and transport - all you need is a broker that deals with Lloyds...

Alex
(dismayed that the tools of our trade are suddenly target for a quick buck...)

A few notes on the insurance angle. ( with a disclaimer-- this is based on my policy. I have no idea what yours says but you can read it an figure it out!!)
The tubas and euphs are considered personal property and they are covered anywhere in the world for a variety of "named perils" under most home owners or renters policies. If they are used professionally, ( even a little bit) they are considered business equipment and there may be a limit on the amount of coverage in the policy. The amount can vary from policy to policy and may have different limits if the property is located on premises when damaged or off premises.
The better way to go, even if you don't play professionally is to get a "rider" and insure it separately.
The actual name of the policy is an inland marine policy, and can be used to insure a wide variety of items like the wife's diamond ring. The cost is really pretty nominal compared to the value of most of the horns I see people talking about on Tubenet. It will also cover those perils not normally covered by a home owners or renters policy like dropping a horn.
If nothing else-- talk to you insurance agent about the coverage available on the horn without and then with the inland marine policy and make an informed decision as to whether or not you want to purchase the inland marine policy.
For you business folks -- since I would guess for the right price you would sell any of the horns in your stable of horns, you could simply add the value of them into the business property policy you hopefully have on your business. The coverage isn''t as good, like dropping a horn wouldn't be covered, but theft would be. You might want to see how the coverage works if the horn is off premises when damaged or stolen though as different limits could apply.
ScottM

A question about insurance, while we're on the topic...

How would I go about defining a "value" for the tuba for insurance purposes? Specifically, I bought both of my tubas, used, from Dillon's. Can I send receipts that show what I paid, and use that as a starting point (minus depreciation) for replacement value?

If you bought the horns used, I would use the sales price as the value used to insure the horns. You may be able to buy a stated value policy so if the horn is stolen they pay you the amount you insured the horn for initially. If you bought a horn new, I would use the purchase price. You might want to keep your price up to date using the prices you see the horns being sold for here on an annual basis.
ScottM

bloke wrote: lesson learned: Police types don't give a crap about your stolen stuff, and probably won't even cut their donut break short to drive around the block and recover it for you. When something is stolen from you, you're 100% on your own.

Nor will they pursue someone who throws paint on your car.

I hear if you score above an 80 on an IQ test, you won't be admitted to the police academy.

Yeah, for a group of people who are incessantly referred to as "heroes", they sure do some incompetent, abusive things.

Watch out if your dog is a protective watch dog and your door is busted down by the police.....with some trigger happy Barney Fifes - it's all over, Rover.

I remember in high school (this is in the California Central Valley) we had a very old double-bell euphonium. I think it was an H.N. White, but I can't recall for sure. Pretty banged up - it had clearly had a hard life but it still played pretty well out of the main bell (the small one was pretty badly out of tune). Anyway, one of my classmates stole it and then tried to sell it to me for (if I recall) twenty bucks or something. I bought it, returned it to the school and informed the band director. Got some nice thanks though sadly no reimbursement. I transferred to another school and went back for a basketball game a year later. Talked to one of my friends and he mentioned that the euphonium had 'disappeared' again. *sigh*

The lesson I learned was that school administrators are lazy and don't really care and the cops are useless in theft cases. I've been meaning to put an insurance rider on my horns - just haven't looked into it yet. These tuba thieves are a good reason to stop procrastinating, I think.

Anyway, I'm really sorry to hear about this horn and I hope it turns up again. As others have said, Ebay and Craigslist are probably good places to start.

Mojo workin' wrote:

bloke wrote: lesson learned: Police types don't give a crap about your stolen stuff, and probably won't even cut their donut break short to drive around the block and recover it for you. When something is stolen from you, you're 100% on your own.

Nor will they pursue someone who throws paint on your car.

I hear if you score above an 80 on an IQ test, you won't be admitted to the police academy.

Yeah, for a group of people who are incessantly referred to as "heroes", they sure do some incompetent, abusive things.

Watch out if your dog is a protective watch dog and your door is busted down by the police.....with some trigger happy Barney Fifes - it's all over, Rover.

As Bloke said, much of the policing job has devolved to "try not to get shot." 173 officers killed in the line of duty in 2011. Funding for most police agencies is down, and the demand for police intervention is up. Many agencies are scrambling to respond to calls for service of person crimes, and yeah, property crimes are fairly low on the priority list. Any one beat, bludgeoned or stabbed? No? We'll be there when we get there, and do what we can before the next guy that is beat, bludgeoned or stabbed, or the next cop is killed, or the next drunk idiot crashes and kills a family. And hell yes, I'll shoot a dog that looks like it is fixin' to bite me, just like I'll shoot someone that is trying to kill me. Or you. Or your family.

Insurancewise, it would be best to talk with your own agent and see exactly what you have and to find out what you should have to cover your situations. (Having a working relationship with your insurance agent is a Good Thing.)

KiltieTuba wrote: How do you insure instruments that are no longer made?

All of my instruments are at least 50 years old (two are 86 years old), sure the Holton can be replaced with a newer version of the York-design, but the jumbo sousaphones haven't been made in nearly a century. Any replacement instrument wouldn't compare or really replace these sousaphones. So how can you insure such a rare or otherwise irreplaceable instrument? Would insurance companies simply give you the money needed to purchase a similar one - smaller or custom made (which may be in the +20,000 range)?

This question comes up extensively in the string instrument community. It is usually framed around "how do you insure a Stradivari violin when..."

1. They haven't made them for nearly 300 years
2. They are irreplaceable
3. They are "worth" so much ($xxx,xxx to $x,xxx,xxx)

In the world of insurance, nothing is irreplaceable and they'll put a price can be put on any object...from strads violins to paintings like the Mona Lisa. Both are essentially irreplaceable, but both have a price when it comes to insurance.

That's where agreed value insurance comes in. With agreed value insurance, you and the insurance company come to a mutual agreement about the monetary value of whatever it is that you're trying to insure. That amount is then written into the policy and if you have a total loss, the insurance payout is guaranteed at that level with no appreciation or depreciation. The idea here is not that the insurance company will come up with a replacement for your object, it's that they will compensate you for it's monetary value only. It will then be on you to locate and purchase a replacement instrument. In the case of a Stradivari, that is very difficult, a tuba...not so much.

This is not the same as stated value insurance. With stated value insurance, your premium is based upon the value YOU state, the higher the value, the higher the premium. In the event of a claim, the way this kind of insurance works is that the insurer is left to establish the cash value of the item.

So, if you really think that you need the ultimate in insurance coverage on your instrument...

Agreed value is the only type of coverage that ensures that owners will be paid in full at the mutually agreed upon level in the event of a loss. Agreed value insurance is (usually) significantly more expensive than "standard" insurance or stated value insurance. If you aren't sure if you have agreed value or stated value, you have stated value. It's almost impossible to get agreed value insurance by accident.

Do not count on your homeowner's or renter's policy covering your instruments at all times and in all places. Chances are it doesn't and if you had a total loss, you'd be stuck having to take what they'd be willing to give you.

Adam Peck wrote:I insure my two primary tubas and their gig bags (repalacement value $20,000 ) for alittle more than $100 a year, through Clarion.

Is there a significant discount for AFM musicians (or other professional affiliations)? My tubas are worth less than half your amount, but the quote I got from Clarion is far more than that (still under $200).

I guess there are a lot of factors that determine premiums though (location, etc...).

Just curious!

PS -- Who is Clarion's competition? Or are they pretty much the only game in town?

opus37 wrote:I called my insurance guy. To insure my tuba, it would require a separate rider on my policy at a rate of $0.65 per thousand of value. How may of you have such a rider?

I pay $85 a year to be a member of Chamber Music America. That gives me access to the professional-musician rate with Clarion Insurance, which packages inland marine policies especially for musicians. I pay about $185 a year to Clarion for about $40,000 in coverage.

If you are in the union, you can probably get the discounted rate without being a member of CMA.

Clarion insurance covers everything except corrosion and vermin. It covers loss inside or outside the home or car, whether or not the instrument is being used commercially. Value is assessed at replacement value as supported by an appraisal conducted by a qualified dealer/repair technician. I had my appraisal done near Memphis, if that gives you any hint. The appraisal is provided to Clarion before the loss, and establishes an agreed value in case of total loss.

Rick "worth it" Denney

Rick Denney wrote:Clarion insurance covers everything except corrosion and vermin

And nuclear war... (actually, the very first exclusion the lady on the phone told me about!). I told her that if there was a nuclear war that affected my tubas, I've got bigger problems than trying to replace my tubas.

Your tubas are worth way more than my car, and your insurance is way less (and Clarion is a MUCH smaller insurance company than a big-name auto insurer). Apples and oranges, but just sayin...

Liability coverage for tubas... maybe we're onto something.

ANYWAY... BUMP for the stolen tuba! Any leads??!!