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I have to ask here because it is not possible to comment in the sponsors forum.

About the Jinbao 450 that seems to be a bit weird intonation wise Bloke commented:
Bell and bugle (I may be wrong...??) appear to have been borrowed from the Hirsbrunner rotary BBb knock-off.

So does that mean the JB 450 is some sort of cut down or redesigned BBb instrument? I think I remember some comment about the Hirschbrunner BBb clone as a relatively good instrument regarding intonation. However there may be things happening when cutting it down if not done very well?

Maybe that is the same thing that happened to the Jinbao 400 CC that could possibly also be a cut down something, sorry I am not that good at tuba models so I could say from what, and then the intonation had been a bit wacky? My Stagg (JB400) has the usual blabla inscription about Designed in Europe, but question is if it is designed as a BBb and then made as a CC but so badly made that the intonation got blue?!

Anything would be better than a JB CC 450... Just a bad horn...period.
Mark

John, could you describe the bad intonation tendencies in the JB-400? What's so "wacky" about it? I'm just curious.

arpthark wrote:John, could you describe the bad intonation tendencies in the JB-400? What's so "wacky" about it? I'm just curious.

The 450 is said to be wacky. I don't know how it's wacky, never having played one. The 400's intonation is completely impossible off the shelf. Some well-judged cutting can make it manageable, as long as you don't mind pushing and pulling.

One way that i found it to be wacky was the response, some notes that i played just didnt speak with the vigor and bite that i like, its sound lacked character to say the least.

arpthark wrote:John, could you describe the bad intonation tendencies in the JB-400? What's so "wacky" about it? I'm just curious.

Well, the octaves on the open horn is either too small or too large. The different partials does not play where you think they should be. However some tendensies seems to be in the same direction that other horns are described for example 5th partial low 6th very high etc. But, when you start using the valves there are more mystique things happening in that for example a partial that where out of tune on the open horn could be very in tune. So it is inconsistent over the whole register. And the sound is also a bit uneven over the whole range. However, I will have at least a cut in one place and maybe some other modifications done. And with a lot of alternative fingerings, pushes, pullings and lippings it is quite usable. I like the size of the instrument. Everything is possible to learn to use, but this one seems to take a bit longer.

What I wonder is, because it is supposed to be a copy of something or at least 'Designed in Europe', if the original it may be modeled after also was that 'special' tuning wise. Or, if it is modeled after a BBb instrument and then cut down to a CC without any sensible research of how to make it work. And that question is also about the JB450, at least those that we have heard of here at TN. Is the JB450 something that is cut down from a good BBb to a not so good CC, or is it a newly designed instrument that is not good yet?

I know a lot of German instruments, that are also very special playing and intonation wise, at least trombones that I have tried many of, so it would not be a total surprise if all the things that we do not like in the originals also show up in the clones.

What mouthpiece are you using with the horn? I play the JBBB-210, the Hurschbrunner copy and it does very well. How far off are the different notes?

Gilligan wrote:What mouthpiece are you using with the horn? I play the JBBB-210, the Hurschbrunner copy and it does very well. How far off are the different notes?

The JBBB-210 BBb is a good tuba with secure intonation. The 450 CC may use the same outer bows, but is a very different beast.

Gilligan wrote:What mouthpiece are you using with the horn? I play the JBBB-210, the Hurschbrunner copy and it does very well. How far off are the different notes?

If you mean about the JB400 I have tried a good bunch of pieces and of course there are differences, some plays better some worse. It is manageable but takes time to work with.
What I have heard about the 210 is a different story. That instrument may be correctly designed because there seems to be only good words about it.

Neptune wrote:

Gilligan wrote:What mouthpiece are you using with the horn? I play the JBBB-210, the Hurschbrunner copy and it does very well. How far off are the different notes?

The JBBB-210 BBb is a good tuba with secure intonation. The 450 CC may use the same outer bows, but is a very different beast.

Jonathan, what about the intonation of the 450 and different mouthpieces? Any combination that works better?

It appears that Tuba Exchange is now carrying this model. I wonder if they have had any modifications done to make it more playable/in-tune?

LJV wrote:

Neptune wrote:The JBBB-210 BBb is a good tuba with secure intonation.

Is that the tuba equivalent to "...but, she has a great personality?"

It means the 210 can be played across the range with good tuning without lots of slide pulling, or use of alternative fingering.

FWIW The same applies to the JinBao 200 BBb, 410 CC, 700 EEb and 800 BBb - all well-in-tune tubas which can be bought with confidence.