TubeNet

Hey guys!

I know that you pull tunning slides to help keep that purticular note in tune, but is there any other reasons?
When I play the low Eb (Four lines below the F at bottom of base clef staff) I pull out my first valve slide and it helps, but when I see professionals such as Alan Baer, David Kirk, and Gene Pokorny they seem to do it every couple of times they use that valve. Can you give me and information or tips on this?

Many Thanks,

Nick Phillips

It's not to tune the note. We do that with our chops and ears. It's to tune the instrument to the note, so that it resonates fully at that pitch.

The folks who do it fall into two camps: 1.) Those who actually can tell when the tone improves when they tune the instrument to the pitch they are buzzing, and 2.) those who are doing it for show or out of a sense of habit. One would not want to assume that the pros you mentioned are in the second camp. I am not really in the first camp, but I still adjust the slide on occasion. Some tubas need it more than others, and some have devised other approaches to solving the same problem.

Rick "hear correct pitch, buzz correct pitch, pull for tone" Denney

You might try sitting down with a tuner and checking the pitch on all of your notes. You will probably find that most are either a bit sharp or flat (you can check the physics on this but that is for another discussion). They are moving slides to get as many notes as possible perfectly in tune. There is another discussion about tempered tuning but again that is for another discussion also. Playing perfectly in tune is a lifetime goal in playing. Good luck, Phil

I've noticed that many tuba students take a 'slide pulling posture' whether they pull slides or not.

My horns don't require pulling slides at the frequency of some of those I see performing.

This is one part of the art that is hard to teach. The player, as Rick says, has to be on with their embouchure and ears first. I have been very lucky that it I was able to figure out when and when not to pull fairly early on. The one big key is to understand the tendancies of the horn you are playing. Once you get the feel of where your horn is going to sit, you can just crank to it everytime.

One of the things that make this easy in an ensemble setting is the quality of the those in your section. I am blessed with a fantastic Trombone section in the SJSO. It allows me to always know how to fit with their sounds. I have always found it easier to fit with a bone section than a tuba section. I don't know if that is beacuse of the 'always tuning' use of the slide, or my inability to hear as well when there are multiple instruments on the same pitch down in the basement.

I do agree with Rick on one major thing. It is not really a pitch issue as it is finding the 'true' quality of sound you want. I can play in tune without yanking my first slide a lot, but it is much more challenging on the chops for me....

Floyd Cooley used to pull on that CSO york something fierce. I think he was not so bad......

WHAT??? You mean...tubas aren't tuned at the factory??? Well I'll be...LOL!

Mike Milnarik

MikeMilnarik wrote:WHAT??? You mean...tubas aren't tuned at the factory??? Well I'll be...LOL!

Mike Milnarik

I knew that tubas weren't tuned in the factory due to the fact that every player is different. I see what y'all mean about pulling the slide for quality, but does it make that big of a difference?

Thanks,

Nick Phillips

My Holton has enough "iffy" notes that I had to re-learn some alternates. You can only bring the pitch up so far with the slides sadly, and I don't feel like chopping more off the slides for tuning reasons (especially the main, just for that pesky F).
C3- using 1st valve is 20cents flat, using 1+3 is fine
F2- open is 30 cents flat approx, 1+3 is fine
C2- using 4th is unstable, 1+3 is fine

Gb's are shaky for an unknown reason, maybe it's just me

bloke wrote:I always thought people were pumping up the air in those things...(??)

If only that worked...

Rick "who needs an alternate air supply" Denney

tubagod94 wrote:I knew that tubas weren't tuned in the factory due to the fact that every player is different. I see what y'all mean about pulling the slide for quality, but does it make that big of a difference?

It makes a difference that is important to the people in that first group. I don't suspect Baer, Pokorny, and Kirk go to all that trouble without there being a difference that, to them, is both noticable and important.

Not only is every player different, but every ensemble is different, and every note might need a slightly different pitch depending on where it is in a given scale or chord. There is no formula. The ears have to hear it and the lips have to buzz it. Without that, slide moving during play is just exercise.

You might not notice a difference if the group in which you play doesn't really integrate its pitch well. And most don't until you get into the good pro orchestra category.

Rick "hoping, just hoping somebody will say that Gene is just making a show" Denney

tubatom91 wrote:Gb's are shaky for an unknown reason, maybe it's just me

Check the valve alignment. On my Holton, the valve cork requirement is different for 4, compared to 1 and 3, but all those are compromises, given that often the ports on the piston aren't the same distance apart (or the same size) as the ports on the casing. I just have to find a reasonable middle ground.

Rick "whose Gb's got better when he bought custom-thickness Blokewashers" Denney

I checked the alignment a while ago and dropped in a few synthetic pads but they may be worn a bit, I've tried the blokepiece route and decided to use a Doug Elliot.

It's for fine tuning (or not so fine, depending on the tuba ) the horn to play spot on in tune or to favor notes in different chord structures. Anything else anyone says is pretty much just silly. People move slides to "show off" or to play in tune, people. If you can "play it in tune" by futzing around with your lips but move a slide to clean it up, you're still moving it to play in tune.
Frankly, the seemingly total reliance on many slide pullers on just the 1st valve slide rather negates anything they say (23? 24? 234? 5234? nope, just keep plugging away at only some of the notes). Main slide kickers/usable main slides/... and if necessary depending on the horn's valve setup a long whatever valve slide to clean up the low range are really the way to go. Having grown sick of messing with several valve slides but still having out of tune notes that cannot be adjusted I am actually putting my money where my mouth is here, though not on a horn most of you will care about.

KiltieTuba wrote:

Rick Denney wrote:

tubatom91 wrote:Gb's are shaky for an unknown reason, maybe it's just me

Check the valve alignment. On my Holton, the valve cork requirement is different for 4, compared to 1 and 3, but all those are compromises, given that often the ports on the piston aren't the same distance apart (or the same size) as the ports on the casing. I just have to find a reasonable middle ground.

Rick "whose Gb's got better when he bought custom-thickness Blokewashers" Denney

I think I had trouble with the Gb and G on my 345, but then I got a blokepiece...

Where do you place the blokepiece in the valve system?

imperialbari wrote:

KiltieTuba wrote: I think I had trouble with the Gb and G on my 345, but then I got a blokepiece...

Where do you place the blokepiece in the valve system?

You use it to whack appropriately sized dents at the nodes of the problem notes.

MartyNeilan wrote: Where do you place the blokepiece in the valve system?

You use it to whack appropriately sized dents at the nodes of the problem notes.[/quote]

The blokepiece, while giving the best bang for the buck, is almost too much for the job. I came across a Perduba double cup trombone mouthpiece which works as an excellent sub for the blokepiece for this. It takes a little less air but a little more force.

KiltieTuba wrote:

imperialbari wrote:

KiltieTuba wrote: I think I had trouble with the Gb and G on my 345, but then I got a blokepiece...

Where do you place the blokepiece in the valve system?

I stick it in the fourth valve tubing to compensate for the little stepping between the inner and outer slides - it adds a lot of zip to the bottom register and a new node or anti-node (can't remember which) next to the third valve letting me play those Gb notes with a bit more pop above the staff.

Anyway 345 should give a reasonable low Gb. On an Eb tuba.