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Hi there

Has anyone out there played a good 981 and a Kanstul 66 top action?

I'm a fence-sitter when it comes to compensating tubas... I've played some nice ones and some awful ones.

I generally play in brass bands, although I did all my uni work on german-style C and F tubas.

I'd be very grateful if anyone who has had a chance to play both could give a quick summary of differences / playing characteristics etc.

Thanks in advance

I have the 66T and love it. It is very easy blowing and has great sound. I have not played the 981.

In the brass band if you don't stray outside the staff too much the Kanstul might be great. In my view the Besson Eb's would offer you a better all round tuba with a stronger low end.


I own a York monster Eb (3 front valves) and it has a GREAT sound in and around the staff but it loses all weight of sound lower down (until one reaches the pedal range which is beefy). Intonation on mine is very good. It also has no high Ab up in the treble clef.

I understand the top action Kanstul is a faithful reproduction of the Grand Rapids Yorks so shares the same insubstantial low range.
Have you tried the 5 valve front action version?

MP

I've been playing a 982 for the last week. It is a 981 with the leadpipe set higher and a 19" bell. Intonation is not as good as I expected for such an expensive horn but it does have a good lower range. The four valve compensating system takes some adjusting to but speaks fairly easily in the pedal range. Also the placement of the lower strap ring causes it to stick you right in the navel every time you breath deep.

I haven't played the Kanstul but looking at the specs the Kanstul horn has a smaller bore (.659 vs .681) this will normally result in a less meaty lower range but not always. If you have looked at the Kanstul site you may notice that some of the 66 pictures are image reversed and are displayed as left handed horns.

Best advice I can give is, if you can, to sit down with both horns and a good tuner.

Thanks for the replies.

I'm actually located in Australia so it's unlikely I'll get a chance to play one of the Kanstuls without first paying for an airfare!

The guy next to me in my band plays on a 980 which is fantastic with an excellent bottom range...I've been playing on a dodgy, slightly older 982 that's extremely stuffy down low.

Thanks again... I'll keep you posted if I decide to take the plunge

I must add this note, as I've had a number of older York monster Eb tubas in my shop. I've had a couple of Bessons here, too, one that I serviced and sold on consignment, and one restoration. The restoration played as well as a modern instrument, and the low register was good on both, but that's not the case with every Besson. As for sound and response, the Besson has a larger bore, but there is more to response and airflow than just bore. There is something in the acoustics of what Mr. Kanstul built that makes his Eb tubas play as if they are a larger bore than what the measurements say. The Bessons play well, but require more effort to play well. The Bessons have a good sound when properly assembled and prepped, but they do not sound like a York. The best way I can describe the York sound is a colorful sound that is at once full of dark core, but has a clear defining edge that makes it very non-tubby.

The old York Eb's play well, but not nearly as well as the Kanstul 66-T or 66-S. The instruments are not merely a copy of the old York, but Mr. Kanstul, who has been an instrument maker since for over 60 years now, actually improved the instrument. I would be more hesitant to say this if I had not had several people play-test an excellent example of a restored York monster Eb in my shop and play the Kanstul 66-T and then tell me that the York could not compare to the Kanstul in quality, particularly in the low register response.

One customer of mine bought a Kanstul 66-T last year, then returned in a few weeks, bringing me his King 2341 to sell, saying that with the Kanstul Eb, he had no need for a BBb tuba - the Eb could do it all. I think that the 5-front valve Kanstul Eb, having a graduated bore, can be played a little more aggressively than the 66-T, and would be my choice if I were using it in lieu of a large F tuba and CC tuba. At the end of the day, I'd be happy to own either Kanstul.

I visited Lee's shop in December and had the chance to make a direct comparison of the 66T and an original York. The York was a very nice instrument but, I felt that the Kanstul was like a generational improvement. Right across the board it impressed me as being superior. I tried it with both my custom Schilke Helleberg and custom Schilke Helleberg "F" mouthpieces. Both worked very well with the "F" seeming to be the ideal - for me - match.

Response, tuning, and ease of playing were fine right across the range. THE aspect which most impressed me, considering it is a bass as opposed to contrabass tuba, was the low range. There was really no need for a fifth valve to cover the lowest notes running right down into the pedal range. The "preferred" notes just slotted right in. I expected a good top end - and it was there too, but to find something which covered the full range so well was a pleasant surprise. Again - my opinion - this would make a very good do it all tuba for anybody who wanted just one instrument to cover everything.
This is, of course, only my opinion but, had I not already purchased 3 tubas I would have been more than happy to have settled for the one - the 66T. Hopefully we will find a way to have one out here in Oz by Nationals time.

If you look through tubenet posts about the Kanstul 66T or S you will find that owners or people who have played these horns a bit consistently praise them and say they are very easy blowing. That is a very glowing endorsement.

If you are able to test play the 981 and get a great specimen , it is to be treasured. Unfortunately quality from horn to horn can be spotty between the UK and German instruments. The Kanstul 66-t and 66-S have been even in quality since the start! Hope you get a chance to try before you buy -- that always makes good sense , always pick a tuba that you like instead of what someone else plays. IMHO you can't go wrong with the Kanstul, try lots of different tubas anyway just to complete the tuba buying experience. Good luck in your quest!