tri-tone (flat fourth) 5th valve

[bud]

I would appreciate comments on Roland's Szentpali's (perhaps many European's) F tuba set up, especially undesireableness since I like the idea. I understand the finger part, but I'm not sure I understand how it would effect the blow in the low register. Seems like it's the same amount of tubing, just less fingers.

If I understood him right, he's got a flat fourth (tri tone) fifth valve slide with the 5th valve for the left hand and a 5th trigger for the left as well. The right thumb has a 2nd slide trigger.





Roland performed on 3 different Meinl Weston 2250 F tubas at the Army Tuba conference. They were borrowed literally within minutes before he took the stage, or, in the case of the final performance, after he took the stage (Craig Knox handed Roland his after he finished his concerto).

Roland explained to me his custom setup for his own MW 2250 which he did not have with him. I was having a little trouble following him since he's really smart and fast, but I think he said that he has a tri-tone or flat fourth 5th valve on the left hand with a fifth slide trigger as well on the left side. The right thumb is rarely used but has a 2nd slide trigger.

Seems like this is the setup that Walter Hilgars has too in a youtube video I saw a long time ago where he's playing from a balcony with German brass. As I watched his fingers, I kept thinking, "he's playing f tuba..., but wait..., now it looks like he's playing CC tuba".

That means that when you put down 5th valve, you get CC tuba fingerings in the low end. And you'd start using it with low B's (25). Bb=15. A could be 234 or 125. Ab=235. G=45. Gb=245. F=0 or 15 or 125 depending on what you do with the 5th slide trigger. E= good old 2 or 2345. Eb 1 or 1345

Maybe I'm wrong about these fingerings. Roland breezed through that part.

From a strictly fingering perspective, this set up sounds like a great idea! Your fingers could really fly through some fast low technical passages. With the flat fourth instead of the flat whole step, you buy more low space before you get into having to use a lot of fingers for a note.

BUT, those of you who have this set up, or those of you who understand tuba physics (I don't, but it seems that you're playing through the same amount of tubing with less fingers), how would Roland's set up compare to the flat whole step set-up playability and sound wise. I've already decided that for the fingers, Roland's set up is definitely better, but I don't have the knowledge to know what effects it would have on the sound, blow, intonation, etc.

What's the advantage to the flat whole step 5th? Why is that how most F tubas make it over here to the States. For someone who can easily adjust to a new system, does this Roland set-up sound like it makes more sense? Seems like you're literally getting more tuba.

[cjk]

The "Hilgers" setup was a quint valve on the right thumb (played low Bb by itself) and a flat half step for the left hand. One can play all the way down to the open pedal F only having a maximum of 3 valves down.

Some of the Gronitz F tubas are available with a tri-tone 5th valve. Here's a link to a fingering chart: http://www.gronitztuba.de/assets/files/ ... CHNUNG.pdf

[Jobey Wilson]

I have the tri-tone slide on my Gronitz PF125...absolutely love it! It was actually easier for me to get used to than the 2/3 slide...my previous F's all had flat whole step 5ths. The low register really pops! jobey

[jtuba]

I liked it too when I had the Gronitz piston F. It was easier to get around for sure.