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I have noticed an interesting negativity regarding sousaphones in a concert band setting. Many conductors say that the bell forward dominates the band, or they are garish sounding. I have on loan a conn 20k and it is a warm tone, I went to a college with an old conn recording bell and the sousy and that " beast" sounded good together. So why do people NOT like sousaphones?

KiltieTuba wrote:snip

Sure, whatever you say. If I'm not getting paid, I'm showing up with whatever I feel like, be it a sousaphone or a 100 year old recording bass

Not being pedantic here, (and I am sure you were being "whatever" in that statement) but Recording Bass horns came along with the recording era, which was not 100 years ago. 85 years, maybe. First jazz recordings were around 1918, the problems with bass horn recording became obvious, develop the Recording Bass - a few years later. Then the improvements in microphones and recording made this less of a problem, but the "look" continues...

As Herman Cain said, I don't have the facts to back this up but I doubt there was a recording bass horn made much before 1925. A quick search of various catalogues from the era yields a bit to support me, but not 100%.

I won't defend my position very much, but it is an interesting rabbit hole.

Do you prefer the "room sound" of a trombone or the sound 6-9 feet in front of the bell?

Do you prefer the "room sound" of a trumpet or the sound 3-6 feet in front of the bell?

I'd venture to guess that we ALL prefer the sound of a tuba's "room sound" over that of the area in front of the bell.

All brass instruments create a certain amount of fuzziness in the sound when you are in the line of sight of the bell.

"Room sound" or "reverb", etc, have been a point of contention in tuba recordings for quite sometime. Many tuba players think that the effect of the room or added reverb is done to hide bad tone.

A certain tuba CD that came out not too long ago was probably the driest brass CD I've ever heard. It has been widely praised in the tuba community, but every non-tubist I have played it for has found it disgusting. One person, a trumpet player phenomena in a major opera refused to listen to it after the first 15-20 seconds. It sounds like it was literally recorded at the edge of the bell.

KiltieTuba wrote:We can even go back a little further and claim that the early saxhorns had forward facing bells in about 1859, so technically recording bells (forward facing) have been around before the era of recording.

Clifford Bevan, "Saxhorns and Other Families," The Tuba Family, (Piccolo Press, 2000), 262.

Sure, in the wild, whacky world of brass instruments there would be some forward bell tubas - there was everything else too! To me, "Recording" implies some sort of phonographic recording.

Do you have a catalogue showing a 1908ish recording bass? I could not find anything in my files - they are not extensive for those years. Many of my tuba books are packed away in deep storage - makes research very difficult! I don't even have my Bevan handy.

BTW, was your previous post supposed to have a link? Donald W. Stauffer, “Shapes and Sizes,” A Treatise on the Tuba, (Bessemer: Stauffer Press, 1989), 7 was not a link.

KiltieTuba wrote: earliest recording bell tuba that I know of is from 1908

My Conn recording bell Eb bass s/n 100xxx dates to 1907. (I am not the original owner.)

And don't forget, the bell-front tuba doesn't have to point towards the front.
It can point anywhere you want, preferably in the direction that is most appropriate for that moment (even upwards!).

Believe it or not, I even played a concert once with the bell pointing backwards 'cause that WAS the best sound in the hall for the group at that moment.

Considering that a tuba is practically as cumbersome as a piece of furniture, it's great that we tubists have the option of owning an instrument that can project its sound in the most optimal direction without having to reorganize the entire seating arrangement of the ensemble.

-Pat

Sousas didn't bother Paul Lavalle. He also knew that they looked great in the back of a band! Incidentally, that's Joe Tarto and Don Butterfield going from left to right in the section photo.

David Richoux wrote: Sure, in the wild, whacky world of brass instruments there would be some forward bell tubas - there was everything else too! To me, "Recording" implies some sort of phonographic recording.

Even in that case, we're still talking about 100 years. The recording industry as we know it was more or less established, with major labels like Edison and Columbia, and top sellers and such, by around 1911. By 1917 it was big enough that RCA could claim a million sales of the Original Dixieland Jazz Band's "Livery Stable Blues" without raising eyebrows.

ginnboonmiller wrote:

David Richoux wrote: Sure, in the wild, whacky world of brass instruments there would be some forward bell tubas - there was everything else too! To me, "Recording" implies some sort of phonographic recording.

Even in that case, we're still talking about 100 years. The recording industry as we know it was more or less established, with major labels like Edison and Columbia, and top sellers and such, by around 1911. By 1917 it was big enough that RCA could claim a million sales of the Original Dixieland Jazz Band's "Livery Stable Blues" without raising eyebrows.

That comment was in reply to the reference of a 1850s bell front Saxhorn - I know a bit about the history of recorded music ( I had a radio program for about 30 years, playing mostly jazz and related music from the first half of the 20th century.) I don't consider myself to be an expert on the subject...

David, no disrespect intended - I'm a jazz historian, and I already know who you are, but since we're picking nits, well...