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Would learning how to play a trumpet help me develop chops for the upper register? I am starting to work my way up but I can't sustain the notes for very long. I have an old Buescher "True Tone" jazz trumpet from 1907 (interesting horn with a quick change valve (which is completely stuck after sitting for 30 years) instead of a sliding 3rd valve tuning slide) that needs to be repaired (I know, Rich Ita is the guy I need to see, I have been told that by at least half a dozen people) but once it is repaired I am planning on trying to learn to play it and maybe in my senior year (if i practice enough) i will play a trumpet solo in our marching band show (just think of how judges would love to see a dude who has been marching a sousa to come up and play a trumpet solo, and it would be fitting because most of our trumpet players suck). Anyways will this help me with sustaining notes in the upper register?

There may be some benefits in strengthening your lip muscles.

However, as previously mentioned, it will improve your trumpet chops a lot more. I have found (again, as noted) that getting the air control sorted is better for high register tuba playing than focusing on 'chops' (lips).

Personally, I don't see any reason why you can't play trumpet as well as tuba, but I'm not sure it's as beneficial as one might think.

KiltieTuba wrote:No, it will help develop your trumpet chops.

To develop your upper register chops on tuba, you must develop you lower register.

I hear this a lot. I think that it may help, but I don't think they are mutually exclusive.

Playing trumpet will certainly help strengthen those muscles, but I'm not sold that it is necessary. Almost all the notes you'll ever play on the horn are within a range that an infant can free buzz (heck, probably lower than what they can free buzz, NOT higher).

Scales, arpeggios, and lip slurs/flexibilites are awesome range builders. Take your sound and embouchure from the gravy range and move it higher and lower.

I think these are good resources:
Bai Lin
Colin Lip Flexibilities
Brass Gym
ImperialBari's Scale Sheets (from his old Yahoo Group)
The Old Bill Bell Warm-up routine in all keys with scales/arpeggios/ditties/drag slurs

Almost every person I've ever met that has an incredible range, is an incredible scale player. Articulated, slurred, ascending, descending, major, minor... you name it.

Which came first? The chicken or the egg? In this case, I think the Chicken came first. Play scales and good things happen.

ShoelessWes wrote:
Scales, arpeggios, and lip slurs/flexibilites are awesome range builders. Take your sound and embouchure from the gravy range and move it higher and lower.

I don't think that I could have said it any better myself! I agree with this 100%.

It's important that you don't just go through the motions-- you've got to stay engaged all the time or your practice time was wasted. Remember that even scales and arpeggios deserve to have a musical shape. Push yourself a little farther for excellence each time and eventually you'll get to where you need to go.

Evan "let the lower octave teach the upper" Callaway

KiltieTuba wrote:No, it will help develop your trumpet chops.
To develop your upper register chops on tuba, you must develop you lower register.

Half right...half wrong.

I started out on trumpet in elementary school, and played it through high school concert band and college jazz band, even while marching with a souzy in high school and then playing tuba in college concert band. Playing trumpet will not help develop high-register tuba playing.

As for developing lower register, yes that must be done, but since the key to upper register playing is to have good "firm" embouchure corners coupled with proper breath support, if you don't use it and practice it and work at it, you can't develop an upper register to tuba, or any other brass instrument.

The problem I have seen over the years, especially for younger players, is that in working too hard to develop an upper register, the "cash" register is neglected, and tone and intonation suffer.

It takes it all, with a good well-rounded regimen of study with various exercises and methods as the previous posters have mentioned, to develop not only the high register, but more importantly, the "cash" register, and also the extreme low register of tuba playing, in all aspects: tone, intonation, lyrical studies, rhythmic studies, technical faculty, etc.

Where developing the lower register helps the upper register is in the area of controlling the breath, to provide the proper breath support for whatever is being played.

Dutchtown Sousa wrote:Would learning how to play a trumpet help me develop chops for the upper register?

For myself, at least, it was the other way 'round.

Developing good tuba chops helped my trumpet playing!

If you wanna play high, practice playing high. If you wanna play low, practice playing low. Practice doing what you wanna get better at.
Basically, do what you wanna improve on. There are no secrets.

Okay, I did this for some time, so here's my take:

1) There are no shortcuts.
2) Improving your range on one may influence the range on others, but the influence may be negative.
3) Bloke is right - qualifiedly. If you want to get better at playing high on the tuba, practice playing high on the tuba. However, in order to be clueful about how to do this, you must also have an energetic and solid low range as well. I do practice my low register to improve my high range, but not at the expense of actually playing up there.
4) For me, the fastest way to hinder and stiffen my top end was performing on the trumpet. The musculature required for a true trumpet tone and control regrettably fits into the bass trombone and tuba mouthpieces, and eventually screws it up royally.
5) Trumpet paid the bills through college and after for me. But eventually, I had to realize that - for me - I couldn't maintain a professional playing level on both. I chose tuba, and sold most of my very good trumpets. While I have one good one for emergencies (trumpet doesn't show for something or cancels, can't fill a gig I contracted, etc.) I don't practice it anymore. For someone who feels completely at liberty and encourages doubling and a doubling mindset, this was a hard thing for me to accept.
6) They are different embouchures and different instruments. Therefore, no instrument can be a shortcut for the others. Sorry.

J.c.S.

bloke wrote:...besides,

If you're going to mess around with the trumpet, you'll have to assume the nuisance stereotypes of owning a ten-year-old sports car, wearing "groovy" sunglasses, owning a selection of electric-colors ties, and being haughty about all of the above...
...well, it's sort-of a stereotype...

OK, we officially need a LIKE button!

bloke wrote:...besides,

If you're going to mess around with the trumpet, you'll have to assume the nuisance stereotypes of owning a ten-year-old sports car, wearing "groovy" sunglasses, owning a selection of electric-colors ties, and being haughty about all of the above...

...well, it's sort-of a stereotype...

http://www.narbonic.com/conch.JPG

One liner of the day:
Q: What does a trumpet player say when meeting another trumpet player?
A: Hi! I'm better than you are.

[whine/(h)wīn/
Noun:A long, high-pitched complaining cry.
Verb:Give or make a long, high-pitched complaining cry or sound.
Synonyms: noun. whimper - moan
verb. whimper - pule - moan - yelp - snivel

And whine about how tired their chops are !!!!!!!!!

b.williams wrote:And whine about how tired their chops are !!!!!!!!!

AMEN!!!

A famous music educator told me long ago that if one is serious that you should concentrate on one instrument. The saying comes to mind, "Jack of all master of none" sage advice I should have taken years ago.
Concerning the upper register development two words contain the secret to success in this area.

LONG TONES

Boring I know but it is the secret to the extension of the range to the extremes both upper and lower.

davesluder wrote:A famous music educator told me long ago that if one is serious that you should concentrate on one instrument. The saying comes to mind, "Jack of all master of none" sage advice I should have taken years ago.
Concerning the upper register development two words contain the secret to success in this area.

LONG TONES

Boring I know but it is the secret to the extension of the range to the extremes both upper and lower.

It's educators like that that tried to deprive me of my career. Educators like that who told me exactly the above, then asked me to play trumpet in their second band... horn in their orchestra, then admonishing me to specialize as I was playing tuba and bass trombone in my senior year for money while they played in the community band.

Educators who try to limit other are not educators.

But that doesn't mean that you don't have to be smart about it.

J.c.S. (who carries a grudge)

Welllll....I have to admit that I really still get going when I see the old adage "you have to develop your low range in order to play high." Developing your low range will develop your low range. Developing your high range will develop your high range. Range has to do with LIP POSITION. Go look up Roger Lewis' posts about range and you will have the answer. It is not even hard to play high, IF YOU KNOW HOW. You will not learn how by practicing the low register. In the low register, your lips are rolled out, like pursing your lips, somewhat (just to try to get some picture going.) Playing high is the opposite, in that your lips are rolled in. Rolled out = lots of red showing, even the wet part. Rolled in = much less red showing, different kind of skin vibrating. It's easy, really. I can pick up a tuba if I haven't played for a year and play high notes on it. I don't have any endurance, but the notes are still there because it's all about technique.

MA

Pursing lips was wrong image....I think I meant the opposite. Oh well.
MA

MaryAnn wrote:Welllll....I have to admit that I really still get going when I see the old adage "you have to develop your low range in order to play high." Developing your low range will develop your low range. Developing your high range will develop your high range. Range has to do with LIP POSITION. Go look up Roger Lewis' posts about range and you will have the answer. It is not even hard to play high, IF YOU KNOW HOW. You will not learn how by practicing the low register. In the low register, your lips are rolled out, like pursing your lips, somewhat (just to try to get some picture going.) Playing high is the opposite, in that your lips are rolled in. Rolled out = lots of red showing, even the wet part. Rolled in = much less red showing, different kind of skin vibrating. It's easy, really. I can pick up a tuba if I haven't played for a year and play high notes on it. I don't have any endurance, but the notes are still there because it's all about technique.

MA

This thought from Roger Lewis together with some ideas about breath control from David Zerkel got me playing above the staff on a BBb for the first time since high school (when I imagine I was just squeezing like hell, but I don't remember). Very, very valuable.

MaryAnn wrote:Welllll....I have to admit that I really still get going when I see the old adage "you have to develop your low range in order to play high." Developing your low range will develop your low range. Developing your high range will develop your high range. Range has to do with LIP POSITION. Go look up Roger Lewis' posts about range and you will have the answer. It is not even hard to play high, IF YOU KNOW HOW. You will not learn how by practicing the low register. In the low register, your lips are rolled out, like pursing your lips, somewhat (just to try to get some picture going.) Playing high is the opposite, in that your lips are rolled in. Rolled out = lots of red showing, even the wet part. Rolled in = much less red showing, different kind of skin vibrating. It's easy, really. I can pick up a tuba if I haven't played for a year and play high notes on it. I don't have any endurance, but the notes are still there because it's all about technique.

MA

I can see why people say to develop your low range to improve your high range. It might not help your chops but it will help with breath support I would assume

Dutchtown Sousa wrote:Would learning how to play a trumpet help me develop chops for the upper register? Anyways will this help me with sustaining notes in the upper register?

I recently started playing the cornet with a Dennis Wick 2 mouthpiece. I started on trumpet long ago and wanted to return to my brass playing roots. What I have found is that...wait for it... yes, playing the trumpet has helped my high register not only on tuba, also the trombone and euphonium. Playing the cornet up to g above the treble cleff staff has allowed me to play up to the equivalent pitch on all the other instruments. WOW!!!!

I am a trumpet/cornet player who has been playing tuba for 4 months. I find it easier to play at the top of the staff and above than to play some of the notes right in the middle of the staff (such as C, B, Bb). The first day I picked up a tuba I was able to sound notes up to the open 8th partial, something that took me years to learn as a trumpet player. I still need to round out the sound but getting up there is not a problem.

Is this due to my experience as a trumpet player? I don't know, but I suspect that it might be related.

Hup